These old instruments worth resuscitating?

[Cadence]

Unless you want to maintain the panel look. Can the stuff. Labor costs today far exceed the price of new ""better" electronics, if you can find someone to rehab. the instruments. It's become a throw away world.

[CarinaPDX]

I suppose it largely depends on your pocketbook and your attitude towards repair vs replace. If you can fix them yourself and you will be satisfied if they are working then definitely give it a try. If you have to spend money to get them fixed then consider the option of putting that money towards newer technology, and decide according to your values. I would feel comfortable troubleshooting and repairing such instruments for electronic components and wiring, but if the problem is in the sensors then it would be either replacement of parts, bought from the factory, or new instruments.

Consider that if they are broken they might not need replacing. You already have a different depth sounder that seems to work for you. The speedometer is nice but most of my cruising was done without (a functioning) one - paddlewheels are not the most robust solution. Use SOG (speed over ground) from a GPS instead. And while someday I would like to buy a wind instrument I did all of my cruising with a masthead wind indicator (weathervane) - I don't need an instrument to know how to adjust the rig for the conditions. If you are going to get into racing then you would need a much better instrument package in order to play the currents, etc, but for cruising it is just a nice-to-have.

If you do decide to replace then go directly to an NMEA 2000 system instead of separate instruments, which will give you room to grow as you wish to add other electronics.

Greg

[wingssail]

I think it is worthwhile to resuscitate old instruments.

Good equipment will last almost forever. I just removed a complete B&G Hercules system first installed in my boat in 1979. ALL working until I retired it two weeks ago. I actually had tears in my eyes when I thought about the years of loyal service that B&G gear gave us. I felt like I was firing an old friend. When I let him go I helped by carrying the box of his stuff to the car.

So what did I install?

Another old system. A bunch of B&G Hercules H2000 gear from a couple of boats, one lightning hit and considered dead, the other just old and being replaced. I put about 80 hours into testing and configuring and now I have a working system, still old, but newer and supposedly better. Bought new this system would be over $10,000 and even used it would add up to about $3000 (but the Mast Unit alone lists for over $4000 new (vertical) and not available used, so I built one out of used parts.)

I still have some bugs and a software upgrade to apply and some major calibration and maybe it wont last, but for now, it's working. I had a few boxes of spare parts for the old system and none yet for the new one, so if anyone has some B&G H2000 gear they want to get rid of, I'm interested.

[Fore and Aft]

Wingssail you are a legend. I think for most of us paying for 80 hours of labour would render those instruments to expensive to bother touching.

Cheers

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Wingssail you are a legend. I think for most of us paying for 80 hours of labour would render those instruments to expensive to bother touching.

Cheers

Ahh, but it's my own labor. It costs me nothing and I'd have gotten 80 hours older anyhow whether I worked on the B&G stuff or wasted the time reading and responding on CF.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Ahh, but it's my own labor. It costs me nothing and I'd have gotten 80 hours older anyhow whether I worked on the B&G stuff or wasted the time reading and responding on CF.

True except for
Wasting time here, say it isn’t so

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

True except for
Wasting time here, say it isn’t so

You're right. It isn't a waste of time. I learn something every day and whether it is fact or wisdom or even some humility, I gain.

[b.needalman]

Unless you can fix it yourself, it is rarely cost effective to repair old electronics of any sort.

Trouble is, that on a boat it is very difficult to replace just one instrument. The networks (interconnections) have changed over the years. Also, sensors (speed/depth/wind) are sold separately and are likely incompatible with your older instruments. Vesper has an AIS unit that translates older networks and the newer NEMA 2000, but it's about $1,000.

Long story short, it's a tough decision whether to repair an ancient system or spend considerable money on an upgrade.

[Paul Annapolis]

I agree with CarinaPDX who wrote "I suppose it largely depends on your pocketbook and your attitude towards repair vs replace." Having said that, as with anything else that is boat-related, I think you have to weigh the aesthetic and romantic and idealistic with the practical and financial. Best to overweight the romantic while we're on it....It all depends on what kind of boat this is, what you paid for it, what you are willing to spend and try to determine what is really worth doing. Are you going for an "old" or classic look or which displays do you prefer? When it comes to electronics, new is generally, or almost always better, and believe it or not, you may do better just by trying to sell those instruments. I would think there are many buyers out there. nd it may make better sense for both parties to strike a deal and then you apply the proceeds to new instruments.

[sck5]

I cruised to the caribbean and back (from Chesapeake Bay) with a malfunctioning wind instrument. After a couple of initial attempts, it never made it to the top of my to do list until I decided to sell the boat. I tied some yarn to my shrouds instead and was happy.

[JSSailem]

I would go for it. They will add a bit of nostalgia next to your 24" Glass Bridge MFD.

On the serious side. I like aged units that function correctly and use minimal electric demand. Your best shot will be the Speed unit. Just two wires, but dependent on the paddle wheel functioning. If the paddle wheel is toast, it is not likely going to be a successful project.

Good luck

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by b.needalman

Unless you can fix it yourself, it is rarely cost effective to repair old electronics of any sort.

Trouble is, that on a boat it is very difficult to replace just one instrument. The networks (interconnections) have changed over the years. Also, sensors (speed/depth/wind) are sold separately and are likely incompatible with your older instruments. Vesper has an AIS unit that translates older networks and the newer NEMA 2000, but it's about $1,000.

Long story short, it's a tough decision whether to repair an ancient system or spend considerable money on an upgrade.

It all depends on how much time you have and are willing to invest on your old instruments and how creative/comfortable/knowlegable you are on electronic problem solving/repair.

Add to that the cost/availability of sensors the project may be difficult to complete successfully even after spending quite a lot more than you hoped for.

In my case I didn't have $10,000 for a complete new high end system but I had time and was willing to tackle the project. (I am willing to break anything).

It took a lot of time (over 80 hours) but in the end I think it was worth it. For about $500 I got an excellent system worth many thousands of dolars.

And I got the satisfaction of solving a technical challenge.

I guess I'd say that is a rare outcome.

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by JeremyFowler

My electronics/techo knowledge is very limited so advice welcomed please.
As per the photo which I will now attempt to attach, is it worthwhile attempting to get these functioning again? I'd have to connect up a heap of wires again I'm sure. The most important one for me would be the speed indicator, it is fed by a paddle wheel sender unit that has 2 (disconnected) wires coming from it.
The depth sounder has been superseded by a stand alone unit. (interesting that this one had such a shallow limit - 10m)
Cheers!

These look like good old simple analogue instruments without any complex electronic "brain box". This gives them the value of simplicity. I would suggest testing them before a costly decision to replace. You will require the manufacturer's manual to be sure of properly connecting and testing. Basic testing should not require extensive electronics knowledge. Just read the manual and get the connections correct. It should have drawings to show connection scheme. Connections for test purposes need not be of the high quality needed for permanent operation. Make sure it works, then make proper wire terminations.



Once you establish that they work, a rough calibration can be done by comparing readings with known good instruments. Check the wind speed against the reading of a nearby vessel. Check the depth against the reading of a nearby vessel or a simple sounding line. The speed can be checked against another vessel sailing close by at same speed and course as your boat, and against speed indicated by GPS. You can also sail a course between markers of known distance and time yourself to do a speed calculation. Basic calibration checks will avoid costly professional calibration. And how accurate do you need to be anyway ?



If your boat is out of the water, you will have to be inventive to test the speed and depth units. Perhaps temporarily rig them aboard another boat to compare reading to the other boat's instruments. Perhaps the manual will tell the speed reading for various rotational speeds of the paddle wheel, but you will need a test tachometer, and means of spinning the wheel. Perhaps a variable speed electric drill can be coupled to it. Or use a stream of water from a hose. A cheap tachometer from Harbor Freight should be accurate enough to tell paddle wheel speed. The optical type that senses a spot of reflective tape would be quite useful for this and other jobs. You can use it for engine work too.


If the manual will tell the reading for various blade RPM's, you might test the wind speed indicator with the optical tachometer and a strong fan to drive the sensor blades.

[dfelsent]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think it is worthwhile to resuscitate old instruments.



Good equipment will last almost forever. I just removed a complete B&G Hercules system first installed in my boat in 1979. ALL working until I retired it two weeks ago. I actually had tears in my eyes when I thought about the years of loyal service that B&G gear gave us. I felt like I was firing an old friend. When I let him go I helped by carrying the box of his stuff to the car.



So what did I install?



Another old system. A bunch of B&G Hercules H2000 gear from a couple of boats, one lightning hit and considered dead, the other just old and being replaced. I put about 80 hours into testing and configuring and now I have a working system, still old, but newer and supposedly better. Bought new this system would be over $10,000 and even used it would add up to about $3000 (but the Mast Unit alone lists for over $4000 new (vertical) and not available used, so I built one out of used parts.)



I still have some bugs and a software upgrade to apply and some major calibration and maybe it wont last, but for now, it's working. I had a few boxes of spare parts for the old system and none yet for the new one, so if anyone has some B&G H2000 gear they want to get rid of, I'm interested.

Wingsail,
As an FYI.
I spent some time resuscitating a Hydra 2000 main processor. It turned out that for a time smaller electrolytic capacitors were prone to leaking electrolyte.
This was not a b and g problem but affected quite a few pc motherboards as well.
I removed all the caps, washed with di water and isopropyl. I repaired the corroded traces on the pcb and the unit worked for at least 5 years more.

Time well spent. Glad others do that too.

[Dieseldude]

Yup, old electrolytic capacitors should be replaced as a matter of preventive maintenance. At exactly what age, is difficult to say. But at 20 years, they are getting up there. When doing any work, they should be discharged through several hundred ohms of resistance for a few seconds or minutes. It would be good to make a discharge probe with a resister of several hundred ohms in the middle, some wire on each side, and an alligator clip on each end. Charge state can be determined with a volt meter. At near fully discharged, they should be a small fraction of operating voltage. Actually, they can never be considered fully discharged, as they can self recover to a certain extent. As long as they are down to tenths or low ones of volts, you and your equipment should be safe from sparks and zaps.


No need for advanced electronics knowledge. Good desoldering and soldering skills are required though. Circuit board component pads and traces can be easily damaged by excessive heating, so care is required.