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Old 24-09-2024, 09:44   #1
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Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

SORRY ABOUT THE LONG POST.

I posted this already in the Weatherfax plug in page, but unfortunately got no reply. So maybe someone can help here.
I'm not a HF buff and only want to receive RTTY and weatherfax.
I have currently no intention to become a Ham or Marine HF operator. Sorry.

So please keep your answer as simple as possible. Thank you!

Tecsun-PL880 aerial question.

Yesterday I made an aerial for the Tecsun PL-880 as follows and I TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY PLUGGING THE AERIAL IN SEEMS TO MAKE HARDLY ANY DIFFERENCE TO THE RECEPTION WHEN I PLUG IT IN.

Few comments before I describe the aerial I made.

*We are currently at anchor in Taormina Italy.

*All other electrics are off. I only use a 12V power supply for the computer and a USB connection from the PC to the Tecsun to supply it with power.

*I can receive DWD RTTY weatherforecasts on 10100KHz very well.

*I do understand that lower frequencies tend to work better in the morning and evening, while the higher ones may work better at midday.

When I try the weatherfax frequencies of DWD or from Northwood I get very poor results to the extent that I can not read the charts.

Here is how I built my aerial:

9.50m of tinned copper cable (2.5mm2) along my intermediate dyneema shroud.
Could not go longer, as it would chafe when attached to the upper shroud.

Attached to a deck socket.

In the interior I use about 4m Coaxial cable running to the jack plug which goes into the Tecsun aerial socket.
Core is attached to the exterior aerial wire on the inside of the deck socket.

The only Jack plug I had available on-board was a 3.5mm stereo jack plug.
So I attached the aerial cable to the tip of it and the shield to the two channels.

I added heat shrink over the plug housing and then even extended the shield over the housing with tinfoil before adding another layer of heat shrink tubing over that.

So the shield goes really over the complete interior cable run up to the radio.

On the attached images you see the deck connection and aerial.

QUESTIONS:
1)
Is there something wrong with my aerial setup?

2)
Should I open the radio and check if the antenna jack is connected properly? There is no warranty anymore.

3)
Do I need to add a ground wire?

4)
Where would I attach a ground wire, the PL-880 does not have a ground wire attachment?

5)
If I need a ground wire, should I use coax and how do I need to attach it?

Does it need to have continuity with my coax shield going from the deck plug to the Tecsun?

6)
I read, AND SUSPECT THIS TO BE NONSENSE, that it would suffice to spread out some tinfoil under the waterline INSIDE the bilge and attach a groundwire to it. Does that work?

In case I need to attach it to an underwater metal object I'd need to run a 5m long coax wire to a through bolted Anode, which I really would like to avoid.

All our seacocks are Trudesign plastic ones.
We do not have inboard engines and the outboards are lifted normally.

Thanks for any consize and practical suggestions/help to troubleshoot this.
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Old 24-09-2024, 11:26   #2
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

a few thoughts....
You may well be getting carried away focusing on the antenna, any old bit of wire hoisted in the air croc clipped to the radio aerial should be enough to get a decent signal if there is anything getting through.
You can listen to online radios to hear what's is being received elsewhere, top one is usually a good choice on here - University of Twente.
websdr.org

DWD RTTY will be heard first. it will come though when there's nothing on 7878Kz or 8038Khz

Right now DWD RTTY and WFAX are both very clear on websdr but on a good ham radio installation in the Algarve I can just hear DWD RTTY but nothing on 7878Kz Wfax. The early evening slot with useful faxes is usually better. I'll try later if I remember.

Also anchored/on passage is far better for reception than in a marina or boatyard, big difference.

Current propagation conditions are easy to find on the web >
https://hamradiofornontechies.com/cu...io-conditions/
Very bottom on the right, 40m band is FAX, 10.1Mhz is in 30m band. Think few people bother with the higher or lower FAX frequencies, is there's a signal getting through usually the 7878Khz frequency is best.
Northwood still broadcast on 8038Khz but it's military & they do their own thing, might be of use if someone can get a schedule but DWD is the much better bet.
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Old 24-09-2024, 16:55   #3
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

It is likely that all your problem is being inshore.


I used a NASA receiver on a laptop. My antenna was plain copper wire - run along the cabin (about 2m) horizontal, then up the mast about 7m (vertical, along one side of the mast, just next to the extrusion.) I used a cheap mike for catching the fax sound. The laptop plotted from the sound. I used https://arachnoid.com/JWX/index.html (but the oldest version - possibly some very very early beta only).



Now in port reception was always marginal at best, or else NIL.


Once offshore, reception was actually mostly decent - we would get say 8 readable fax maps on every 10 tries.


So maybe this is just that you are inshore. Maybe when you are in more open water, say 50-100 miles offshore, the reception may be actually very good.


PS with the antenna like we had, I noted the course did matter - so I learned to pre-tune on an earlier transmit, find the best course, then catch 'my' map, sailing the best course.


PS There is also a short stub ssb antena from NASA - have you tried this ?
https://www.yachtbits.com/image/cach..._1-800x800.jpg


I have this onboard you can test it if it helps on your radio.


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Old 25-09-2024, 00:29   #4
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Thanks everyone.



Tried it yesterday once more and left the USB sound card out of the mix and plugged an audio cable directly in between the line out of the Tecsun and the computer.

The computer has only one jack, which has, what I perceived to be a headphone pictorial next to it.

Turns out it's a combo jack (did not know that exists!).



That improved the signal a bit.


Then I removed that cable too and it made the signal another bit better.



I'm thinking of recording the audio now on a smartphone and then moving this file over to the PC for deciphering. So, there is no "noise" from the PC.



Weird enough all the Android HF decoder apps with rave reviews seem to have disappeared from the Google Play Store.

Surely would be easier to use one of them, but I can't find, let alone download one.



Blackcat does not have an Android app anymore on their website.



Wholpi seems to be out of business.



Anyone knows of one which still can be downloaded?



Will try offshore the next time. We are waiting for wind to take us down to Siracusa right now.
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Old 25-09-2024, 08:04   #5
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
.........
QUESTIONS:
1)
Is there something wrong with my aerial setup?

Not really apart from being overly complicated. It really only needs a single wire connected to the tip of the 3.5mm mono plug or even just connected to the telescopic antenna on the radio. Electrically the SW ant socket on the side of the radio is connected directly to the telescopic antenna.


2)
Should I open the radio and check if the antenna jack is connected properly? There is no warranty anymore.

No. The connector is mounted directly onto the printed circuit board and it is hard to imagine it breaking. If in doubt though, just try connecting your external antenna wire directly to the telescopic antenna on the radio.

3)
Do I need to add a ground wire?

No.

4)
Where would I attach a ground wire, the PL-880 does not have a ground wire attachment?

Not applicable

5)
If I need a ground wire, should I use coax and how do I need to attach it?

Does it need to have continuity with my coax shield going from the deck plug to the Tecsun?

Not applicable

6)
I read, AND SUSPECT THIS TO BE NONSENSE, that it would suffice to spread out some tinfoil under the waterline INSIDE the bilge and attach a groundwire to it. Does that work?

Disregard

In case I need to attach it to an underwater metal object I'd need to run a 5m long coax wire to a through bolted Anode, which I really would like to avoid.

All our seacocks are Trudesign plastic ones.
We do not have inboard engines and the outboards are lifted normally.

Thanks for any consize and practical suggestions/help to troubleshoot this.
Make sure you have switched the SW ANT GAIN switch to DX on the side of the radio.

For best reception of weak SSB signals, set the AM BW to narrow band (page 19 of the manual)
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Old 25-09-2024, 09:24   #6
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Weird enough all the Android HF decoder apps with rave reviews seem to have disappeared from the Google Play Store.

Surely would be easier to use one of them, but I can't find, let alone download one.
HF weatherfax is still out there as an .APK, just installed on the phone. Complains about being for an older android but it works for now, showing something from DWD sitting next to a laptop running websdr.

https://www.appbrain.com/app/hf-weat...m.wolphi.wefax

These days I record the signalk onto a raspberry pi then decode using the opencpn plugin, big plus about wfax is even if the propagation is less than ideal you can usually get a usable image to see where the pressure systems & fronts are.
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Old 25-09-2024, 10:14   #7
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa View Post
HF weatherfax is still out there as an .APK, just installed on the phone. Complains about being for an older android but it works for now, showing something from DWD sitting next to a laptop running websdr.

https://www.appbrain.com/app/hf-weat...m.wolphi.wefax

These days I record the signalk onto a raspberry pi then decode using the opencpn plugin, big plus about wfax is even if the propagation is less than ideal you can usually get a usable image to see where the pressure systems & fronts are.

Thanks. Tried it on my phone and it won't let me. Even if I accept that it's for an older Android version.

I give it a try on the tablet next.
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Old 25-09-2024, 10:18   #8
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Make sure you have switched the SW ANT GAIN switch to DX on the side of the radio.

For best reception of weak SSB signals, set the AM BW to narrow band (page 19 of the manual)

Hey thanks, good to know that my antenna is not fundamentally wrong but possibly a bit overkill.



I am already on DX and had also switched to upper side band.



Do you happen to have a copy of page 19?
My manual is a photocopied something and must have different page numbers.



Thank you for your thorough answer.
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Old 25-09-2024, 10:24   #9
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Thanks. Tried it on my phone and it won't let me. Even if I accept that it's for an older Android version.

I give it a try on the tablet next.
There's a box in settings somewhere to allow apps to be installed from .apk files rather than the play store
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Old 25-09-2024, 10:40   #10
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa View Post
There's a box in settings somewhere to allow apps to be installed from .apk files rather than the play store

I've got those on...


But, it installs on the tablet which has a bit of an older Android version.
Great. Thanks.
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Old 25-09-2024, 11:33   #11
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Not sure I can add much that hasn't already been said. I use a Tecsun 660. I found that the two biggest causes of signal degradation were noise from the 12V-6V power supply and noise from my laptop By running the radio off batteries and using HFWeatherfax on my phone I got much better results.

It's a shame the app is so hard to find. But it actually takes work to keep an app on the play store, and updated. Google recently removed all my apps because I hadn't written a child safety statement for them.
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Old 25-09-2024, 11:41   #12
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

So, got it working with the old Android apps on the tablet.
We're still at the same anchorage, not even offshore.

Thanks everyone! Great help!


Less noise than with the laptop.

Might get an USB C audio cable adapter to connect tablet and radio (tablet has no jack, only USB C), so that reception does not get disturbed by audible surround sounds.
Anyone feels that's necessary?
Suggestions of a specific adapter?
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Old 25-09-2024, 12:39   #13
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Nice image
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Old 25-09-2024, 13:34   #14
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Make sure you have switched the SW ANT GAIN switch to DX on the side of the radio.

For best reception of weak SSB signals, set the AM BW to narrow band (page 19 of the manual)

Found the manual. Thanks. Will set bandwidth to narrow.
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Old 25-09-2024, 19:41   #15
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Re: Tecsun PL880 Aerial problem weather fax

Your laptop may be less noisy when run from the battery. It is often the power brick / power adapter / that is the most noisy part. I used to run the laptop from its own (internal) battery to avoid this.


Since your radio has sound out, it makes sense to use this. Ours has only a speaker, so I used a mic. But my friend used proper audio cable (shielded, quality) and his faxes were always much cleaner.


Another thing worth trying is to switch off some lamps. Apparently some fluo and LED lapms / bulbs may have circuitry that at times gives plenty of noise. I remember switching off our kitchen lamp when listening to ssb.


aha


Your images look great imho. You are already doing very well. There will be much improvement as you get further from land. Well done.


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