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15-03-2012, 13:53
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cat in New Zealand, trawler in Ventura
Boat: 46' custom cat "Rum Doxy", Roughwater 41"Abreojos"
Posts: 2,044
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Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband?
According to the sales literature, pulse is better at weather detection, but I would like to hear from those who have used both. Is there a significant difference? Not having played with radar for decades and never having owned one myself I am curious as to how effective it is for tracking squalls at night and if broadband is usefull in this regard. I am thinking specifically of Furuno 1715 vs 3G as I am on a strict electronics budget.
Thanks,
Mike
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15-03-2012, 15:51
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Yep. Me too most interested in opinions. On the older types seen rain squalls but hard to detect dry ones any time.
b.
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15-03-2012, 16:26
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cat in New Zealand, trawler in Ventura
Boat: 46' custom cat "Rum Doxy", Roughwater 41"Abreojos"
Posts: 2,044
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
This is from the Lowrance site:
Ballpark Distances
Wide weather front with heavy rain
8-15nm
9-17nm
Dense rain cell 100mm/hr
7-13nm
8-15nm
Heavy shower 25mm/hr
2.5-5.5nm
3-6nm
Light Rain
1.3-2.6nm
1.5-3nm
The format didn't translate, but the top number is 3G, the bottom is 4G
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15-03-2012, 16:36
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,483
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
With old school radar, leaving Samana D.R. for Puerto Rico (forget the distance, but it's a ways! 60+ miles?) I easily saw the thunder squalls off the end of Puerto Rico all night. Tracked them if they moved my direction. They are dense, angry and in the air so you can see them many miles away beyond your Radar's rating... Also readily tracked small waterspouts in the Gulfstream... If it's "dry" over water.. wont it be detectable by sea state?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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15-03-2012, 17:21
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#5
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
The professional weather radars are all pulse Doppler radars. They use Doppler effect to discriminate between moving (weather) and static (non-weather) echo's. Frequency: S-band is best and most expensive. Shorter wavelengths limit range.
ciao!
Nick.
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15-03-2012, 19:51
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikereed100
According to the sales literature, pulse is better at weather detection, but I would like to hear from those who have used both. Is there a significant difference? Not having played with radar for decades and never having owned one myself I am curious as to how effective it is for tracking squalls at night and if broadband is usefull in this regard. I am thinking specifically of Furuno 1715 vs 3G as I am on a strict electronics budget.
Thanks,
Mike
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Never used pulse radar, but have used conventional radar many times to track squalls. It has been quite effective in my experience. You just have to play with the filters/gain a bit to get what you want.
One caution, don't get so caught up in tracking the weather that you forget about what else might be inside of that system -- like a freighter! I dial my filters/gain down periodically so I can see what other targets might be hiding in there.
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15-03-2012, 20:38
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia until Spring 2021
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,976
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Good point on the "forest versus the trees" aspect of active radar usage.
A radar installer told me that for offshore, I would be better with a pulse radar for range, but for coastal detail, he prefers the broadband. Obviously, we would have to be discussing otherwise identical installations.
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15-03-2012, 21:23
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 2,662
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
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16-03-2012, 05:50
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#9
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
Never used pulse radar, but have used conventional radar many times to track squalls.
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"Conventional" radar, as far as I'm concerned, *is* pulse radar Many will argue that because of the radar subject , but every Furuno, Garmin, Raymarine etc. aboard yachts is a pulse radar.
ciao!
Nick.
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16-03-2012, 06:39
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
One thing to consider is the difference between 2kw and 4kw small boat radar. In dense thunder storms 4kw will give you a much better view of what is in the storm area and how thick the cells are. At times you can't go around them but you can head through the thinnest part.
__________________
Paul
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16-03-2012, 08:30
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
"Conventional" radar, as far as I'm concerned, *is* pulse radar Many will argue that because of the radar subject , but every Furuno, Garmin, Raymarine etc. aboard yachts is a pulse radar.
ciao!
Nick.
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Yet another subject to learn more about...that's what keeps sailing interesting. Most of the units I have used are older Furuno or Raymarine so maybe I've used "pulse" and didn't know it.
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16-03-2012, 08:40
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri
I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
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YEAH! Wouldn't that be nice!
So, I guess it comes down to what's ones priority, objects vs weather. I like the idea of low power consumption, but would like to see the storm heads as well. Been reading the weather for years w/o radar so I think I would prefer the low power consumption. It's hard to "have your cake and eat it too"
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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16-03-2012, 08:42
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#13
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,046
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
In crossing the Gulf of Maine a few years ago we easily tracked thunderstorms approaching from the west on our green-screen CRT Furuno 1832 radar (4KW with 24" radome).
We were able to pick the thinnest part and pass thru nicely...were surprised it worked so well!
Bill
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16-03-2012, 08:46
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: out cruising again, currently in Fiji
Boat: Sailboat
Posts: 1,466
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Re: Squall detection, pulse radar vs broadband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailFastTri
I have broadband radar and my old pulse radar was better at rain detection. Broadband is better at seeing through it, and for close target resolution. A big boat would benefit from both aboard.
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Thanks for the direct comparison!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L
One thing to consider is the difference between 2kw and 4kw small boat radar. In dense thunder storms 4kw will give you a much better view of what is in the storm area and how thick the cells are. At times you can't go around them but you can head through the thinnest part.
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Agreed: With the 2kW we were able to see the front edge of a squall, not much further. We upgraded to a 4kW (old style, pulse) and the difference to seeing into bad weather is very noticeable. We can now see other boats in the squalls (after tweaking FTC and RAIN parameters)
Dirk
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16-03-2012, 09:36
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
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Re: Squall Detection, Pulse Radar vs Broadband?
Ive never had a NEW radar system LOL only the old ctr greenie LOL and never had any trouble seeing and tracking storm fronts, rain squalls ect also birds if ya trimm it up a little ! Whats the big difference?? Im really asking cus Im sure not gonna have that type on the new boat when we find it !
__________________
Bob and Connie
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