Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-02-2021, 20:09   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Boat: Alajuela Crealock 37
Posts: 78
Simple VHF

I got this from a guy who was responding to my request for info on actual required stuff for sailing in daytime and local San Juan Is. area.
He said:

ďI'd suggest a good VHF radio with sound signals like the Standard Horizon. Put a good antenna at the mast top with very good coax that has low loss. Put a hailer horn on your mast at about spreader height.
I had many days with fog on Puget Sound and this takes care of your fog signals. It can also be used as a loud speaker but I never needed one.
The VHF is handy to have.Ē

I need a VHF bu want to kop it simple. In the thread I mentioned ha Navx, gps, iPhone and IPad.
What should I get for the VHF?
AmzngGrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 20:25   #2
Registered User
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Hunter 26
Posts: 2,072
Re: Simple VHF

What the guy said.


If you're doing it right, you will spend more on antennas and feedline than the radio.


I just got a couple of Standard Horizon GX1400 radios for two of my boats. Good value for the money. There are lots of good choices. Whatever is available and reasonably priced is fine.
__________________
Never ascribe to wisdom that which is adequately explained by good luck.
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 20:40   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: www.sweetruca.com
Boat: J Boats J/46
Posts: 48
Re: Simple VHF

Thatís good advice. Any boat mounted VHF these days should also have DSC capability.

IMO whatís right for you depends a lot though on your cruising grounds and aspirations.

If you are staying in cell phone range and cruising on sunny days, you can probably get by with a cheap handheld.

If you plan on getting off the beaten path or go offshore at all you should do all that you can within your budget to ensure you have proper communications in case of emergency. A good VHF is the bare minimum. Consider also carrying a backup antenna/wire in case of dismantling.

Fair winds!
SV_Sweet_Ruca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 20:55   #4
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,371
Images: 53
Re: Simple VHF

If you are starting out with VHF, if it were me, I'd get one with the AIS reception like the Icom M506 or the Standard Horizon GX6000. If you have AIS already it's a nice back-up, but it is pretty amazing all the stuff they pack into a VHF these days. I wouldn't go too simple in that one I think. Having the AIS info, even if it is not a tranceiver, can be REALLY handy sometimes. If you need to save money you can probably find a bunch of good used radios that don't have the AIS reception.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 21:07   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,724
Images: 7
Re: Simple VHF

Which ever you get, connect your gps to the radio, unless you get a radio that has gps built in already.

When you hit the panic button if gps is connected your position is digitally sent to the Coast Guard.
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 00:38   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 8,699
Re: Simple VHF

If you want to stay simple and cheap to start with, just buy a 6 watt handheld VHF. After you have some experience with it and other electronics you can decide to install a built in 25 watt unit with a mast head antenna,
The handheld will be fine for contacting close by boats and marinas. Not so good for longer range calls, like an emergency call might be.
__________________
Paul
Paul L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 07:31   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 582
Re: Simple VHF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
...I'd get one with the AIS reception like the...Standard Horizon GX6000.
I disagree with the recommendation to purchase a Standard-Horizon GX6000 radio under the rubric of "simple VHF." The basis for my objection to the Standard-Horizon GX6000 as a "simple VHF" is:

--it requires a second, separate, isolated antenna to fulfill its AIS receive-only function;

--if a second antenna is not used, then an expensive fast-acting antenna switch would be needed to fulfill its AIS-receive-only functions;

--it provides support for multiple wireless and wired remote microphones; and,

--on the rear panel are EIGHT connectors and THREE fixed wiring harnesses;

All of the above completely remove the GX6000 from the realm of "simple VHF" radio, which is the criterion for the recommendation being sought.

For a "simple VHF" get a Standard-Horizon GX1400.

If you want AIS, a hailer, and fog signals, get a GX2400.

For a masthead mount antenna get a GAM ELECTRONICS SS-2.

For transmission line longer than 20-feet use RG-213/U.

For general advice about installing a VHF Marine Band radio, read:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/ref...tallation.html

The above article covers
--licensing,
--compliance with required equipment,
--registration of the radio with a maritime mobile service identity agency,
--the location of the radio,
--the electrical power for the radio,
--the transmission line,
--the antenna location, and
--the antenna type.
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 07:39   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 582
Re: Simple VHF

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
When you hit the panic button if gps is connected your position is digitally sent to the Coast Guard.
When a DSC radio makes a DISTRESS ALERT CALL, the call is a broadcast transmission sent to ALL STATIONS. The call is not addressed to a particular station like "the Coast Guard."

Whether or not a Coast Guard station will receive the call depends on your position relative to the nearest Coast Guard radio receiving station.

The ability of any other station to receive your Distress Alert DSC message will depend on the distance between your station and their station.

In the coastal areas of the United States, the U.S. Coast Guard RESCUE21 radio system is designed to ""receive, at minimum, a one second transmission from a one watt power source with an antenna two meters above sea level up to 20 nautical miles from shore."
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 09:26   #9
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,371
Images: 53
Re: Simple VHF

Quote:
Originally Posted by continuouswave View Post
I disagree with the recommendation to purchase a Standard-Horizon GX6000 radio under the rubric of "simple VHF." The basis for my objection to the Standard-Horizon GX6000 as a "simple VHF" is:

--it requires a second, separate, isolated antenna to fulfill its AIS receive-only function;

--if a second antenna is not used, then an expensive fast-acting antenna switch would be needed to fulfill its AIS-receive-only functions;

--it provides support for multiple wireless and wired remote microphones; and,

--on the rear panel are EIGHT connectors and THREE fixed wiring harnesses;

All of the above completely remove the GX6000 from the realm of "simple VHF" radio, which is the criterion for the recommendation being sought.

For a "simple VHF" get a Standard-Horizon GX1400.

If you want AIS, a hailer, and fog signals, get a GX2400.

For a masthead mount antenna get a GAM ELECTRONICS SS-2.

For transmission line longer than 20-feet use RG-213/U.

For general advice about installing a VHF Marine Band radio, read:

continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: VHF Marine Band Radio Installation

The above article covers
--licensing,
--compliance with required equipment,
--registration of the radio with a maritime mobile service identity agency,
--the location of the radio,
--the electrical power for the radio,
--the transmission line,
--the antenna location, and
--the antenna type.
Oh I agree it is not "simple." It has way more options available. But for $400 it just seems worth it to me, and that is just me. Someday he may move up to needing the options, maybe not. When it comes to needing 2 antennas, I believe you are thinking of the GX6500 that never came out as an AIS transceiver. According to the literature the single antenna works for AIS reception only. I believe you just can't receive while you are talking to someone. I do see they say it needs 2 antennas if you want to get continous reception while transmitting and receiving but if you are not transmitting it still functions with one antenna and no splittter, correct? You are right that the GX2400 receives AIS and would be a simpler radio. https://panbo.com/standard-horizon-g...-mics-finally/
Oh and I confess I don't own one (yet.) My friend, who has an old radio, and I want to upgrade so we have been researching the options and I was just really impressed by all they packed into the radio. I probably won't use half of it though!
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 12:55   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 582
Re: Simple VHF

In reply to my earlier comments against buying the GX6000 as a "simple VHF" radio:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
When [the GX6000] comes to needing [two] antennas, I believe you are thinking of the GX6500...an AIS transceiver.
Hello Don--No, I was thinking precisely of the GX6000 radio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
According to the literature the single antenna works for AIS reception only.
According the the Standard Horizon owner's manual for the GX6000 radio, the following HIGHLIGHTED NOTE appears on Page 9:

Quote:
The GX6000 requires two separate marine VHF antennas, one antenna for VHF and a second antenna for AIS.
Source: https://www.standardhorizon.com

That literature from Standard-Horizon was the basis for my earlier statements about the the GX6000 would need two separate and isolated antennas to be able to perform its AIS receive function.

I just downloaded the user manual from the manufacturer's website. If they have some other literature that contradicts that literature, please give me the URL to where I can see it or download it. I have been following the GX6000 radio since it was first announced (quite prematurely) in 2016. See

Standard-Horizon GX6000, GX6500 - CONTINUOUSWAVE

You are certainly free to buy one, but as I explained the GX6000 does not really meet the criterion for a "simple VHF" radio.

The $400 prices may seem attractive, but after you buy the second antenna, a mount for the second antenna, the transmission line for the second antenna, a connector or two, and the water-tight gland to pass the transmission line through the cabin bulkhead for the second antenna, I think you will probably have spent another $200 or more.
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 16:40   #11
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,371
Images: 53
Re: Simple VHF

Yes, I see that note. But are you saying that the GX6000 will not receive and/or display AIS info at all without the second antenna? It is not just that they mean the second antenna is required for uninterrupted AIS reception?
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 18:25   #12
Registered User
 
grantmc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: home town Wellington, NZ currently Savusavu Fiji
Boat: Reinke S10 & Raven 26
Posts: 809
Send a message via Skype™ to grantmc
Re: Simple VHF

Hand held VHFs are also useful. One for the dink and one for the grab bag.
__________________
Grant Mc
The cure for everything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea.
grantmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 06:45   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 582
Re: Simple VHF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
But are you saying that the GX6000 will not receive and/or display AIS info at all without the second antenna?
Hi Don--It is not me that is "saying" how the many antennas the GX6000 requires. I just quoted and cited a sentence in the Standard-Horizon owner's manual for the GX6000 radio. Let me repeat what STANDARD-HORIZON SAYS:

Quote:
The GX6000 requires two separate marine VHF antennas, one antenna for VHF and a second antenna for AIS.
Don--can you explain the basis for your belief that the GX6000 does NOT require two antennas for AIS? Earlier I asked if you could cite "the literature" you mentioned as the basis for your belief, but you have not done that.

Again, please recognize that this information is presented in a highlighted text box separated from other information, which is a technique used in instructions to call the reader's attention to an import message.

Next, Don proposes that Standard-Horizon intended that sentence to have an alternate meaning:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
It is not just that they mean the second antenna is required for uninterrupted AIS reception?
Don--I cannot speak for the intentions of Standard-Horizon when they authored that sentence. However, as a fluent speaker and reader of English, I do not see any evidence in that sentence of the meaning you wish the sentence to contain.
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 09:15   #14
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 10,371
Images: 53
Re: Simple VHF

I'm just going by things like that the 2400 can function on one antenna and this article's quote:
"Looking at the backside of the GX6000, letís deal with the possibly bad news first. Yes, those are separate antenna connectors for VHF and AIS even though VHF/AIS receive-only is usually done with just one VHF antenna and not much performance loss Iím aware of (unless you transmit a lot). The obvious reason is that Standard Horizon used the same hardware format as the GX6500, which likely required separate VHF and AIS antennas to meet the two separate type-approval requirements (which it still apparently failed to do).

But then again the same thinking does extend to the GX6000, as explained by U.S. Standard Horizon manager Hans Rooker:



The reasoning for this is the GX6000 is designed to be our high end AIS model so when the VHF radio side is receiving or transmitting you will not lose any AIS signals coming into it, in other words the AIS is continuous duty. If your boat only has room for one antenna (e.g. sailboats) then you will be required to use an antenna splitter which will cost between $120 to $250 depending on the model."

Anyway I am not trying to pick a fight and I'll defer to your reading of the manual.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 10:57   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northport, Michigan
Boat: Trailerable cruising boat
Posts: 582
Re: Simple VHF

In an earlier reply, I asked Don to explain the basis for his statements that the GX6000 radio does not need a separate antenna for the AIS functions. Don as now provided three sources. The first source is the capability of the GX2400:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I'm just going by things like that the 2400 can function on one antenna....
Don--I understand the GX2400 can provide AIS receive-only with just a single antenna attached to other radio. The clue there is the presence of only one VHF antenna connector on the radio rear panel. However, I do not see a basis to infer that because the GX2400 uses only one antenna to provide VHF receive-transmit and AIS-receive that therefore the GX6000 can also use one antenna in the same manner. I believe you have made an incorrect inference about the GX6000, which is why I commented about the GX6000 not being a good choice for a "simple VHF" because it needs two antennas or it needs an external fast-acting antenna switch to share one antenna between the two antenna connectors on the rear panel.


For a second basis, Don quotes without attribution an unidentified speaker:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I'm just going by things like...this article's quote:

"Looking at the backside of the GX6000, let’s deal with the possibly bad news first. Yes, those are separate antenna connectors for VHF and AIS even though VHF/AIS receive-only is usually done with just one VHF antenna and not much performance loss I’m aware of (unless you transmit a lot). The obvious reason is that Standard Horizon used the same hardware format as the GX6500, which likely required separate VHF and AIS antennas...
I don't know who you are quoting. And I don't see anything in the quote that suggests the GX6000 (by itself) could use just one antenna to provide VHF transmit-receive and AIS-receive only. My inference from the quoted passage is whomever is speaking is pointing out the same drawback--"the bad news"--that the GX6000 needs two antennas to provide VHF transmit-receive and AIS-receive only. So again, I do not see a basis for your interpretation that the quoted passage supports your view.

Don then provides a third basis to explain his thinking:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
"...as explained by U.S. Standard Horizon manager Hans Rooker:

" 'The reasoning for this [that is, the need for a separate AIS antenna] is the GX6000 is designed to be our high end AIS model so when the VHF radio side is receiving or transmitting you will not lose any AIS signals coming into it, in other words the AIS is continuous duty.' "
Again, and apparently from a person at Standard-Horizon, the clear meaning of what is quoted is the GX6000 requires two antennas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
...I'll defer to your reading of the manual.
My reading of the language in the manual and the language in the three sources you have quoted is all the same: the GX6000 requires two antennas if you want to enable the AIS function. I don't believe I have read into those several comments any meaning that was not intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I am not trying to pick a fight...
Don--my only interest in the discussion is to clarify why I disagreed with your recommendation to purchase a GX6000 as a "simple VHF" radio. I explained the basis for my opinion that the GX6000 did not meet the criterion of a "simple VHF" radio, and one of those reasons was the need for two antennas or the need for a fast-acting antenna switch to share one antenna between the two antenna ports.

You have now explained the basis why you think the GX6000 radio only needs only one antenna to provide VHF receive-transmit and AIS-receive.

I think the discussion between you and me has become a distraction to the actual topic of this thread, so I will not make any further comments about your opinion of how the GX6000 radio works with regard to needing one or two antennas to provide VHF receive-transmit and AIS-receive. I remain of the opinion the GX6000 needs two antennas to provide VHF receive-transmit and AIS-receive.
continuouswave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
vhf

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VHF and AIS Radiowave Propagation and VHF and AIS Radio Range ka4wja Marine Electronics 33 20-11-2020 13:22
For Sale: ICOM M605 VHF, M506 VHF, 801 SSB, Vesper Vision2 - Portland, Maine lwatts General Classifieds (no boats) 15 03-09-2020 21:38
Can AIS Share VHF Antenna with Existing VHF Radio ? cool2848 Marine Electronics 18 24-04-2013 08:56

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.