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Old 26-01-2021, 07:41   #1
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SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Hello all,

I am updating and converting my transducers, wind instruments, and adding autopilot to all new Raymarine gear. As such I am running a new Seatalkng backbone and wiring setup. I will have power supplied to the system from the autopilot ecu controller, but my question is can I use one of the seatalkng power cables plugged into the system to supply power to non-seatalk accessory? I built an Iphone holder at my wheel last year with a scanstrut waterproof wireless charger and it needs power. I didn't run a separate power supply to the pedestal, I just pulled power of the existing displays there, but with the switchover those are going away and I don't want to run a separate power cable, and will have an open port in the 5way at the wheel. Does this make sense to use a power cable to get power, rather than supply power to the seatalk network?

Thanks
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Old 26-01-2021, 07:58   #2
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

I would suggest that is possible. Pins 1 and 2 on the Seatalk NG are +12V and ground respectively (google this to know which pins are which although this knowledge is not really relevant), so when you need to add power to the network you add a power cable (spur), or do as you have done. To get access to the power carried within the backbone cable to power your device at the pedestal just use the same power cable via a T-piece.

Main drawback I think is that the network (cable, adapters, instruments) is designed to be water resistant, your own connections may compromise this so beware of moisture, maybe good to add a fuse?

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the Forum! Forgot
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Old 26-01-2021, 08:00   #3
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

You could if there's enough power available, though it isn't recommended.


I believe the usual maximum is 8 amps total for all devices although this can be higher or lower depending on cable lengths and where and how power is applied to the backbone. It would probably work OK.
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Old 26-01-2021, 08:03   #4
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Yes, you can take power off the buss like this, but be careful not to exceed the capacity of the buss.

I power a small garmin handheld this way.
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Old 26-01-2021, 08:12   #5
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Possibly as noted above about using too much power. The smaller iPhone chargers provide 1A at 5V, allowing for conversion efficiencies that is about 10 LEN (load equivalence number) in SeaTalkng/NMEA 2000 terms. Newer chargers provide 2.1A or about 20 LEN (a LEN is 50mA at 12V). Ray suggests a maximum of 40-50 LEN on one side of the power insertion point in the backbone (this is a simplified version, see the SeaTalkng reference for planning power usage).

Bottom line, you need to dig through the manuals of all the devices you already have installed and find their LEN, add them up, and see if you have 10-20 LEN available at the pedestal.
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Old 26-01-2021, 08:25   #6
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

My Seatalk adapter came with a 12V power cable that plugs directly into one of the ports so if you can do that it will eliminate the question of cutting into a waterproof cable.

Also, I had a question about modification to the Seatalk portion of my mixed system and got right through to a knowledgeable and helpful tech at Rarmarine.
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Old 26-01-2021, 10:01   #7
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Thanks for all the answers. I was planning to use one of the supplied red sea talk ng power cords to maintain waterproof connection to hub and will connect the spliced ends to my charger and heat shrink to seal. The charger is rated at input 10-30 volts and Max 1.5a with a Max output of 5w (5v,1a).

I don’t have much on the hub, ev100 wheel autopilot, wind transducer, dst800 tri-ducer converted thru tc5, and 3 displays:i70, i50 tridata, auto-pilot control.

Sound like it should all work?
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Old 26-01-2021, 11:06   #8
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Yes, that sounds like a small enough network that you can feed and tap into as you described. Be mindful that there may be voltage drops that can affect the electronics (won't kill it, but can cause it to restart).
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Old 26-01-2021, 12:22   #9
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

This is a small enough system to get away with taking some liberties. The first liberty you are taking is powering the backbone from the autopilot; this capability is mostly intended for a dedicated usage of the backbone for the autopilot, not for powering a populated backbone. Check to see what the maximum power supply is from the autopilot; my Furuno MFD is limited to 1A IIRC. The smaller Maretron power tee is designed to provide (separately) 4A to each side of the tee - you might check the RM spec. You are not drawing enough power to be pushing things, but just for background know that there are three different sizes of cable used in N2K (micro, mid, and mini) corresponding to 22ga, 20ga, and 18ga - I don't know what the RM cable is. For small systems the micro cable is adequate. The problem I have with the proprietary N2K cabling systems is that they are a pain to interoperate with modules from other manufacturers, and in at least one case (not RM) use inferior cable and connectors compared with the recommended DeviceNet terminals, and the Maretron cables and terminals. That said, the current STng system is good quality and in at least one way a bit easier to work with (all cables are M-M, while the DeviceNet cables are M-F).

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Old 26-01-2021, 12:43   #10
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmeal View Post
I will have power supplied to the system from the autopilot ecu controller, Thanks
Are you sure? normally the network is supplied by a power cable and the ACU take the power from the network and supplies it to the drive for the 100 series. The larger ones have separate power supplies for the ACU I think.

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Old 26-01-2021, 13:20   #11
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Some of the smaller model Raymarine autopilots allow connecting the control head to the central brain with a built in power connection in the main unit. But if you intend to setup much more to build a system then you need to do the alternate setup of the ACU.
You can’t have two power sources on a ng or nmea 2000 network. Have to choose one or other method.
I started out with a Raymarine autopilot setup exactly as you mention. Nothing else on the backbone. Route and waypoint data was sent to the autopilot by NMEA 0183 connection from the plotter to the ACU. Worked fine for years.

But when I added radar, fuel analyzer and other devices it was necessary to reconfigure with a “real” ng or 2000 network.

Once you get a full backbone setup you will be glad you did because most all new equipment will just plug an play with the network and any device on it. No more playing with a nest of a bunch of tiny wires and terminal blocks required with 0183.
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Old 26-01-2021, 13:20   #12
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

In a typical wheel pilot set up the biggest power user by far is the ACU 100/ motor, which would favor powering the network near the ACU.

For some reason for the low end RM pilots they choose to not provide bus power from the ACU. My old X-5 actually had the PC wiring for STNG 12V connections just no fuse holder provided.

On my ACU100 install, I just added a 3A in line fuse jumper between the 12V feed and the STNG connection to power the network. I was short of ports on my ST to STNG block and this was a way around that limitation.

" any port in a storm"


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Old 26-01-2021, 13:23   #13
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

No you can’t just add the extra power cord with its T to the system. First rule of ng and 2000 systems. One power source and terminators on each end of the backbone. Everything else is minor rules.
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Old 26-01-2021, 13:31   #14
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

Sorry I misread you original post. You want to take power off the backbone. Yes you can with power limits. But for sake of clarity I would not recommend using the red power cable for this purpose. Use a regular drop cable from a T so no future owner or technician mistakes it for a power cord. These plug and play systems are color coded just for those reasons.
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Old 26-01-2021, 13:39   #15
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Re: SeatalkNG Help with unusual setup-challenge!

That RM drawing works because there is no electrical connection to the +12V wire on the STNG tap cable (lug to connect it it just goes nowhere). The 12V commons are all connected. So the ACU 12V is powered separately from the bus.


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An extra two conductor power tap cable is a very logical way to steal a little 12V power from the STNG bus.
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