Rudder reference for raymarine

[ilCigno]

The location of the EV-1 sensor (which in fact is also the housing of the autopilot computer) is far less critical than of the old black fluxgate compass.

[Shaneesprit]

So after more research I found, I also basically have to now fit a Raymarine MFD - Multi Function Display at around £1000 in parts, and that’s just so I can update the Firmware!
They don’t tell you that when you make your purchase!
If you have to spend this kind of money to get it to work - it’s not fit for purpose.
I have also asked Raymarine for the Minimum and Maximum Linear drive length, they told me “I don’t need to know”
I am concerned that the rudder angle is restricted by the lack of length in the drive - I am not surprised now looking at the lack of rudder angle available while on the hard, I am guessing it’s 5’
Can anyone give me the minimum and maximum drive length from there linear drive?

[ilCigno]

You indeed need a MFD for updates, but that can be the cheapest second hand one you can find. As long as it is SeatalkNG connected and has a SD card port. Over here in The Netherlands most chandlaries offer a MFD for hire for update purposes, cost about $10. I suggest to inform at your local shop if they offer such a service. Also, you could ask around if a fellow boater would lend you his or hers MFD for a few hours.
The RM firmware updates are not frequent at all so I wouldn’t call it a very big issue.

[arsenelupiga]

wow, this raymarine show does remind me of spaghetti mess.

having now second thoughts.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

So after more research I found, I also basically have to now fit a Raymarine MFD - Multi Function Display at around £1000 in parts, and that’s just so I can update the Firmware!

They don’t tell you that when you make your purchase!

If you have to spend this kind of money to get it to work - it’s not fit for purpose.

I have also asked Raymarine for the Minimum and Maximum Linear drive length, they told me “I don’t need to know”

I am concerned that the rudder angle is restricted by the lack of length in the drive - I am not surprised now looking at the lack of rudder angle available while on the hard, I am guessing it’s 5’

Can anyone give me the minimum and maximum drive length from there linear drive?

Regarding drive length/travel/stroke Google is your friend! Found the information on defender marine see https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=72300 as a sample of data they have.

[Shaneesprit]

The EV-100 tiller doesn’t publish the minimum and maximum drive length.
I want this information because with this, I can calculate the tiller angle, which Raymarine say you don’t need - despite it being one of the settings you have to program into the pilot.

[ilCigno]

Q047 drive pin-pin, measured on my desk:
Min 495mm
Max 750mm

But I concur with RM that you don't need these figures for your dock-side setup.

[Bycrick]

The "you need something else to update the software" isn’t just a problem with Raymarine. I need to replace an old B&G display. I was looking at Maretron. But you needed their computer-to-N2K adapter for updates. Not a big deal if I were putting in a bunch of Maretron hardware, but makes installing a single display much more pricey. Interestingly, if I buy the B&G display, I CAN update it from a USB stick, but since I have the MFDs ..... The devil is always in the details.

[Shaneesprit]

True You don’t need them for the dockside wizard, but I would describe my Autopilot performance as poor at best, so you need the MFD to update the firmware,
Plus at present I have to insert the Rudder angle into the Dock side wizard, something I cannot truly know without knowing the length of the EV-100 tiller drive.

Anyway the point of this is I then intend to refit the Tiller drive against the manufacturers guidelines, as the drive length is too short leaving me with no rudder angle to turn the boat, this is then causing an over active pilot that is using all of my battery power and generally causing the boat to travel in a Zig Zag direction. Generally it can hold a course but the way it does it is likely to cause an accident, and certainly cause embarrassment.

The option I am looking at is to reduce the distance from the tiller pivot to the pilot -
The ST2000+ drive has a longer stroke and was able to correctly steer the boat, but it wasn’t man enough for a 2500Kg Catamaran. So kept breaking or giving up when going over a wave

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by ilCigno

Q047 drive pin-pin, measured on my desk:
Min 495mm
Max 750mm

But I concur with RM that you don't need these figures for your dock-side setup.

So why do you not need the drive lengths?
Knowing the min and max drive length gives you the, figures to calculate the maximum rudder angle, the Dockside Wizard asks for this - at least on my present firmware, as the drive length fixes the rudder angle - my worry is that min rudder angle is less then the 10 degree that is the minimum available setting on the EV-100

[Shaneesprit]

So here is the Calculation for the Rudder angle that the EV-100 limits the rudder to. 23.7’
See photo attached

[Shaneesprit]

I should add that the tiller drive maximum angle is 23.7 that is hard port to hard starboard, leaving less than 12’ in either direction, to me it’s no wonder the bloody thing can’t steer or settle..
has anyone tried to install the drive closer to the tiller pivot?
I am aware that this will increase loading, but I am only 2500Kg and it’s rated at 6000kg I think, that said the ST2000+ is 4000Kg rated and that cannot handle my boat, not sure if It should be less rating because it’s a Catamaran? I guess It but not sure by how much? Raymarine don’t say anything about considering twin rudders.
MFD purchased, along with some Seatalk cables.
Glad to read the update seems a very simple process, i must admit if it works as described, after spending many years of my professional life describing how software updates should work, to manufactures the Raymarine solution, is exactly how it should be done, connect to WiFi and let it update itself! I have lost count of the amount of times a failed update at work has cost 10s of 1000s of £.

[eipeldau]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

I should add that the tiller drive maximum angle is 23.7 that is hard port to hard starboard, leaving less than 12’ in either direction, to me it’s no wonder the bloody thing can’t steer or settle..
has anyone tried to install the drive closer to the tiller pivot?
I am aware that this will increase loading, but I am only 2500Kg and it’s rated at 6000kg I think, that said the ST2000+ is 4000Kg rated and that cannot handle my boat, not sure if It should be less rating because it’s a Catamaran? I guess It but not sure by how much? Raymarine don’t say anything about considering twin rudders.
MFD purchased, along with some Seatalk cables.

Glad to read the update seems a very simple process, i must admit if it works as described, after spending many years of my professional life describing how software updates should work, to manufactures the Raymarine solution, is exactly how it should be done, connect to WiFi and let it update itself! I have lost count of the amount of times a failed update at work has cost 10s of 1000s of £.

Hello,

There’s a mistake with your rudder angle calculation. You used 620mm as the radius value, whereas the correct value is 460mm.
Also, we should consider half-stroke instead of full stroke in angle calculations, so the error in taking sine instead of tangent (or vice versa) is thus minimized.

A simplified calculation gives you angle=asin (255/2*460) = 16.1degrees or angle= atan (255/2*460) = 15.5degrees, TO EACH SIDE.

The correct result is somewhere in between and can be achieved with a little bit more math work. But that would be irrelevant to our case.
Mine is a monohull, and this rudder angle is hardly reached either by the AP or by hand steering. I mean, it’s a big angle gives me a very sharp turn. Even for a catamaran, that should be a big enough angle.

When you don’t have a rudder sensor installed, the angle above, which you provide during dockside wizard is irrelevant to the autopilot. Actually, the AP defaults it to 30degrees and nothing will change if you modify that number.
The AP relies solely on the hard over time to ESTIMATE where the rudder is positioned every time. The drive does not have any built in sensor that warns the AP before it bangs its end stops. So not having a rudder sensor means you will eventually have your drive forcing against the end stops when you tack, for example. Incredibly, that’s a situation Raymarine says you should avoid by all means, but by inputting some suitable hard over time, which is unfeasible.
So, if you don’t want your drive to get ruined by banging against its end stops, you need a rudder reference sensor.

Once you install the rudder sensor and run the dockside wizard again, the angle we calculated above will be automatically displayed during the process, since you’ll be moving the drive from end to end with its now installed sensor. Now the AP knows its limits and will not bang on the ends anymore.
Without a rudder sensor, it’s impossible to feed the AP with this information, no matter how much you tinker with hard over time.

Regarding your main erratic behavior when you push Auto, take a look at this fixed thread on Raymarine forum: https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=1772

If the above link doesn’t help solving the problem, I agree with other members in saying that a firmware update has a very good chance in solving your problem. Here you can see that the latest update for the ACU is exactly for solving poor performance for systems that don’t have a rudder sensor installed: https://www.raymarine.eu/service-and...107.1609588294
I don’t really see how a firmware update could void your warranty.

Good luck!

Henrique

[Shaneesprit]

How many people are actually using the tiller pilot version?
My concern is over the maximum steering angle of 12 degrees if installed to the Raymarine spec. The ST2000 had more angle to work with although I need to calculate the ST2000 angle to see what I had before

[eipeldau]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

How many people are actually using the tiller pilot version?
My concern is over the maximum steering angle of 12 degrees if installed to the Raymarine spec. The ST2000 had more angle to work with although I need to calculate the ST2000 angle to see what I had before

You apparently haven’t read my above post to you. Most of your concerns are addressed there.
If you’re interested, take a look at at it and I’ll be glad to help you if I can.

Henrique