Required or Optional?

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by witzgall

Ah, sorry, I missed the post where you let us know it was free-standing. I know nothing about how drilling holes would affect them vs. a stayed mast. Sorry for the distraction.

Chris

Chris,

Hey....no problem here..... don't think that I'm picking on you, because I'm not trying to.

Everyone tries to help, and that is the important thing here.

James L

[propellanttech]

To anyone following, and wondering if there is an answer, here is what I found.

I have a contact on the Hunter forums, which did a little research. He owns a Vision 36 and has the manuals. The following is state direct from the manual, and it sums up the information with a few sentences:

"Since there is no backstay or shrouds, the bending moments are very substantial at the deck level. This is why it is very critical to not drill any holes within 3 feet of the deck level of this mast. If you wish to add spinnaker gear, it must be done above this point."

This basically tells me, anything above 3 feet from the deck is fair game on the mast.

One major concern of mine squelched. I probably was blowing out of proportion but I like to know before I go.

Thanks everyone for participating in my paranoia game.

Wow....that was a major thread derailment. Sorry Mods.

James L

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by propellanttech

(...) Yes we do plan to cruise the Caribbean. (...)

SSB
AIS
Radar
EPIRB
autopilot
GPS
Chartplotter

SSB - no
AIS - no
Radar - no
EPIRB - no
autopilot - YES
GPS - YES
Chartplotter - yes

good sun awnings - YES,
big water tanks/or/watermaker - YES,
solar/or/wind energy - YES,
RIB - YES,
mosquito nets on all ports and hatches - YES,

etc.

b.

[Tia Bu]

Lots of different opinions here. Interesting.

Here are my votes:

SSB- no.
Satellite phone- yes.
Radar- no.
AIS- yes.
EPIRB (really a PLB is fine)- yes.
GPS- yes.
Watermaker- no.
Awning- yes.
Mosquito netting- yes.
Solar panel and wind gen- maybe, but not necessary.
Refrigeration- maybe not.
Chartplotter- maybe not.

I read a lot on these forums as I originally upfitted my boat for cruising, and I found that information very helpful. After cruising for three years, I would say the advice you get from the forums should be seasoned with this:

1) It's slanted toward older technology. Perhaps this is because sailors are slow to adopt new technology. Perhaps it's because a number of active contributors are former cruisers. If there's a debate between old and new technology, I'd go with the new.

2) The advice is slanted toward more complex systems than you probably really need or want. I suspect that's because many full-time cruisers want to recreate their land-based living environment as closely as they can on their boats when they first start out. But after spending some time living on the water, we (and lots of others) have learned that simpler is better.

For what that's worth...

[propellanttech]

Just to refresh my points:

SSB - probably receiving only, but HAM not out of the question.
Sat. Phone - no, I think it's cost prohibitive.
Radar - yes
EPIRB - yes , could go with PLB
autopilot - yes
GPS - yes
Chartplotter - yes
Refrigeration- absolutely.....spouse has basically demanded it
good sun awnings - yes
Dodger- yes
watermaker - yes
solar/or/wind energy - yes
RIB - yes
mosquito nets on all ports and hatches - yes
AIS - no
Portable Generator - yes, didn't want to go with mounted unit.

It is interesting the differences, in what people think are nice to have, and not really warranted. Notice I didn't say "needed".

Keep the list going.....

James L

[propellanttech]

Here is one not on the list, but is on my mind.

Windlass - manual
Windlass - electric

In you list, state if you have/want one, if yes, which type. Capstan (vertical windlass) is included with that definition.

James L

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Think boaters would be a lot better off if they'd get head out of their ________ instruments and just look around. The DS in a planing power boat is still going to ram you whether you see him coming on your radar or not. The electron drain means a lot of engine/aux generator/solar/wind generator time to keep it running in addition to all the other electron gobbling gear on a boat.

You bring up a good point. Something that often gets forgotten about is that radar is a real power sucker on board. So that requires using the engine more often to keep things charged up. Which degrades and/or eliminates your sense of hearing which can be very valuable in collision avoidance. I converted to electric propulsion which is A LOT quieter than the old diesel vibrating below the cockpit. I've noticed I can hear the motor of the Lobster Boats and other power boats from pretty far off as they motor around picking up their traps or are moving about even when I'm motoring. I even hear the conversations of the fisherman on their boats at times from pretty far away. IMO it's always good to have all your senses helping you and not just always relying on power drain items like radar that require you to run the engine to keep things charged up and degrade your hearing perception pretty dramatically. I'm not saying radar is not a good thing to have on board just that to keep it running and the battery bank charged can limit you in other ways.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by propellanttech

Ok,

So I'm searching for our new boat, and making a list (like Santa Claus).....

Here are the things which I'm trying to decide if they are requirements or options.

SSB - Yes we do plan to cruise the Caribbean. But knowing my spouse and myself, we will probably try to not venture too far from land. Even then, a SSB would be nice to have. Also going with HAM would have some advantages. I haven't researched everything associated with this, so the jury is still out.

AIS - I do believe this would be helpful, but I read there are many vessels that do not have AIS. If with AIS, I can't decide passive or active.

Radar - This is more of a problem. I love the idea of radar, but the costs and power consumption are prohibitive.

The rest are pretty standard which we know we will have. EPIRB (definite), Autohelm/autopilot, GPS/Chartplotter, etc.

I would like opinions, for and against each item, if you can muster an argument against.

James L

AIS: Yes ( its now cheap)
GPS/Chartplotter:yes
VHF:yes
EPIRB: yes
SSB: no , its not "needed"
SATphone: nice if you need to ring home.


radar: nice but not needed ( but still useful if you have the dish)
bimini: yes
screens:yes
watermaker: useful as I found some places water was difficult to get, but not mandatory
RIB: Yes ( and not a inflatable) , but with all the hassle of transporting it

Dave

[donradcliffe]

All are options, but you won't use radar that much in the Caribbean. My priority list would be

1. GPS/Chartplotter--using a netbook with Open Cpn
2. AIS receiver--cheap and effective
3. Ham radio--cheaper than SSB and can be used for emergency transmissions
4. Radar
5. AIS transponder.

[Hudson Force]

We cruised well for twenty years without a depthsounder, knotmeter, wind speed or direction instrument. I had a leadline for times when we were poking about an anchorage. We could pretty well judge the boat speed, wind speed and direction without electronics. An RDF, compass, paper charts and dead (ded) reckoning manged to keep us aware of our position. We didn't have solar, wind or a diesel generator, refrigeration, watermaker, windlass GPS, LORAN, or EPIRB for those twenty years either. I know this makes me sound like the old guy saying how far he walked to school in the snow, but this lack of stuff was not a hardship. I have a lot of these things now and enjoy them. Some, like my horizontal manual windlass are essential now that I'm using all chain as well as lost some youthful vigor! There's a huge difference between what we need and what we enjoy having. Some of the reasons why we don't strive to have all the new technology is because many of us continue to do so well without it!

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

We cruised well for twenty years without a depthsounder, knotmeter, wind speed or direction instrument. I had a leadline for times when we were poking about an anchorage. We could pretty well judge the boat speed, wind speed and direction without electronics. An RDF, compass, paper charts and dead (ded) reckoning manged to keep us aware of our position. We didn't have solar, wind or a diesel generator, refrigeration, watermaker, windlass GPS, LORAN, or EPIRB for those twenty years either. I know this makes me sound like the old guy saying how far he walked to school in the snow, but this lack of stuff was not a hardship. I have a lot of these things now and enjoy them. Some, like my horizontal manual windlass are essential now that I'm using all chain as well as lost some youthful vigor! There's a huge difference between what we need and what we enjoy having. Some of the reasons why we don't strive to have all the new technology is because many of us continue to do so well without it!

Up hill.....both ways.....in the snow........bare foot!!

I do understand, but since this is my passion and my wife at this point is still "iffy". I am going to try and make things "easier" with some extras. I think they are worth the money.....and she is worth it as well.

The more difficult items to install, will be had before our start of small hops. The easier ones will probably be procrastinated on, until we actually start more "adventurous" cruises.

James L

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by propellanttech

Up hill.....both ways.....in the snow........bare foot!! ........James L

Ok,- It's confession time. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale where we were raised as hot house pansies. In the 1950's we would get out of school on any day when the high temperature was forecast to be less than 60 degrees fharenheit. We would venture out from home in our winter coats and thrill with attempts of "seeing our breath"!

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

Ok,- It's confession time. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale where we were raised as hot house pansies. In the 1950's we would get out of school on any day when the high temperature was forecast to be less than 60 degrees fharenheit. We would venture out from home in our winter coats and thrill with attempts of "seeing our breath"!

Shameful!!!!

Well.....I was born and raised in Alabama, I rarely see snow, unless I go to ski (way further up north).

James

[downunder]

Originally Posted by jeremiason

I always find it amazing how many people will say that radar isn't necessary... But I guess some people are comfortable using buckets for heads.

In my expereince teaching electronics and radar use, many recreational sailors are unfamiliar with their radar's abilitities and tend to ignore it since they don't know how to use it properly. Excuses like, "it uses to much Power" or "I don't sail in fog" are silly in regards to radar.

Radar is one of the most effective and multi-purpose tools on your vessel.

Most people think of radar and associate it with limited visibility, like fog or darkness, but radar can be used for much, much more.

Besides limited visibility, radar also measures bearing and distance, which can calculate Closest Point of Approach (CPA) and Time to Closest Point of Approach (TCPA) or in other words determine if you will hit or miss an approaching vessel and what time will it happen.

Radar can identify weather systems (Squalls), giving you a chance to prepare or out run it.

Radar can be used for navigtion and will identify RACON Devices on navigational aids...

Not to mention it can be overlayed on electronic charts to see if they are acurate or not and if off determine how far.

+2 radar is much more and multi use.

Many sailers have been bought up with chartplotters and see that as the first item to buy and nowdays they are so relatively cheap and often seen as infallable.

[propellanttech]

Originally Posted by downunder

+2 radar is much more and multi use.

Many sailers have been bought up with chartplotters and see that as the first item to buy and nowdays they are so relatively cheap and often seen as infallable.

Well to spill the beans (wow...here goes my reputation....if I have one......and it's not already bad.......)

I plan to buy a GPS/Chartplotter/Radar combination (probably Garmin HD)

I know the drawbacks to having an all in one unit.....but I'm not into having three different systems to do one thing. I am a PCB designer and tech, but even then, repair is usually out of the question on a unit like this.

So........all you nay sayer's.........SSSHHHHHH

James L