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Old 13-11-2020, 10:24   #1
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Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

I am looking at a comprehensive upgrade of an old Raymarine system of 1999 vintage. I want to keep the depth, speed and wind transducers. I am leaning towards keeping the displays but would ideally add an i70s but am unsure on compatibility.
The attached diagram shows my planned setup and I would love to hear ideas to improve or anything I have got plain wrong.
If compatible I would plug an i70 directly in to the backbone in the idea it would read from the legacy transducers.
Thanks for your ideas.
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Old 13-11-2020, 10:48   #2
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Your diagram looks identical to our installation other than we have a wheel drive rather than under deck system. The only problem we have is the Seatalk>SeatalkNG converter has fallen over so whilst the ST60s work and display, the data isn't currently reaching our Element CP. It was a £25 e bay gamble that hasn't paid off so will replace it with a new one this winter if I am allowed to visit the yacht again.

Worth mentioning that the converter should be powered by the SeatalkNG network and not the Seatalk network. To do this open up the yellow and black wire and fish out the red power cable. Cut and isolate the ends of the red cable, job done. The manual still states the wrong advice but the Raymarine Forum has the better latest advice.

Why not plug the VHF into the SeatalkNG network too?

Were is the power feed to the SeatalkNG network? really needs to be in the middle of the network, if possible.

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Old 13-11-2020, 11:04   #3
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

I am planning something similar. I am thinking that I will need SeatalkNG to NMEA2000 adapters for things like a Vesper AIS.

Is that right?

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Raymarin...ale-P3256.aspx
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Old 13-11-2020, 11:33   #4
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
The attached diagram shows my planned setup and I would love to hear ideas to improve or anything I have got plain wrong.
Don't forget the backbone terminators. You've probably already thought of that, but I mention it, just in case, as they're not shown on your diagram
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Old 13-11-2020, 11:59   #5
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I am planning something similar. I am thinking that I will need SeatalkNG to NMEA2000 adapters for things like a Vesper AIS.

Is that right?

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Raymarin...ale-P3256.aspx
Yes, plus another the chart plotter to SeatalkNG. Just check you have the right connections as they are available with either male or female NMEA 2000 plugs.
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Old 13-11-2020, 12:21   #6
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

We did something similar except kept our old autopilot drive unit (RM X-5) powered as a converter between NMEA 0183 and old SEATALK. All would appear to work fine. Not sure just who is talking to whom but at least they are all talking (ie the right parameters are showing up in all the right places).

There are some limits on how many Seatalk devices the RM converter will support (if I remember 5).


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Old 13-11-2020, 15:04   #7
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Timely, as I'm planning to replace the 2001 suite of Raymarine instruments and ST5000 autopilot.

Spoke to the Raymarine rep to confirm I can use the Type 1 Linear Drive with the new EV-200 autopilot. He said I need the E22158 Seattle 1 to Seatalk Ng converter kit.
Going to add an i70s system pack (wind, depth & speed), with an Axiom+ (9 or 12").
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Old 13-11-2020, 15:56   #8
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

One other thing you might consider. In the older fluxgate rate sensor system having the rate sensor (in the power unit) located mid ships was desirable. Now all that attitude information is produced by the EV-1, so the best location for the power unit is close to the 12V power and the rudder actuator to keep voltage drops to a minimum.

One of the real pluses of the Evo system is that I can engage the AP in the wind vane mode with the engine at 1,000 RPM, the yacht will steer perfectly into the wind while I go fwd to raise the main. Even some of my most experienced help would let their attention lapse, the bow would fall off and we would have to wait until things were once again under control.

In 20 to 30 one day I just set and watched it for 10 minutes before raising the main, amazing .


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Old 14-11-2020, 03:15   #9
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Thanks for these great comments. Responding to a few of the comments and questions.
Plugging the VHF into the backbone: my vhf is an ICOM 506 which is a DSC with AIS receiver, it has it’s own GPS antenna. I prefer to leave this as a stand-alone and as a backup GPS and AIS. I don’t believe it adds anything by plugging it in to the backbone. Maybe I am missing something.
Power feed to SeaTalk NG network: in my diagram this comes from the ACU 400. This example is shown in the documentation for the ACU units. Others may wish to add their comments
SeaTalk NG to NMEA 200: yes, as has been pointed out the correct adapter will be need to attach the VESPER AIS.
Backbone terminators: yes these will be needed namely the blue caps ( was tricky to draw on the diagram)
Position of the power unit ( presumably “Frankly” is referring to the ACU 400): I think positioning is a bit of a trade off. This needs to protected from the elements and be accessible to view. I’ll rethink positioning, although it may be easier to have significantly larger cable to overcome any voltage drop. Other thoughts?

Finally I would love to know if an i70s plugged in to the backbone will work. Anyone?

Hope this thread helps others.
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Old 14-11-2020, 04:06   #10
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
Thanks for these great comments. Responding to a few of the comments and questions.
Plugging the VHF into the backbone: my vhf is an ICOM 506 which is a DSC with AIS receiver, it has it’s own GPS antenna. I prefer to leave this as a stand-alone and as a backup GPS and AIS. I don’t believe it adds anything by plugging it in to the backbone.

Power feed to SeaTalk NG network: in my diagram this comes from the ACU 400. This example is shown in the documentation for the ACU units. Others may wish to add their comments
Understood and good to have some redundancy with the VHF. How does the Icom 506 stop picking up the signal from the Vesper AIS? I don't know if it can be told to "shut up" or "ignore".

We also did the heavy duty tinned power cable thing and kept the ACU of of harms way. Oh and moved the gyro sensor flying saucer widget to a more central fwd/aft location for better performance.

Can't help with the i70s query, we are using the Element to display the ST60s information. Just noticed there is no SOG, probably because I forgot to put the speed log plug in.

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Old 14-11-2020, 05:07   #11
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Not sure why the ICOM doesn’t show the Vesper AIS Signal. Since the boat’s MMSI is programmed into the radio it might be that it recognizes it as the same as the Vesper output and ignores it.

The Element display looks good. Odd that there is so SOG as shouldn’t this come from the built in GPS in the Element unit?

Great to receive the feedback and this gives me confidence I am on the right track.
Now trying to figure out how to keep as much of the old autopilot system in place as a backup if the new one fails.
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Old 14-11-2020, 05:26   #12
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Agreed, I had hoped to do more playing with the display this year, but after the converter fell over whilst on our annual holiday, that was that. Mine seemed to get quite warm too which might be worth considering were you locate it. But it's only an observation from a single faulty converter.

I have it in the cabin ceiling (balsa cored deck above) because that is were the wiring for the ST60s run and its close the Element CP under the sprayhood. Perhaps it needs a bit of ventilation.

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Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
Now trying to figure out how to keep as much of the old autopilot system in place as a backup if the new one fails.
Ha, you're on your own with that, but suggest leave it in place just disconnected and get all the new system working properly first me thinks.
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Old 14-11-2020, 05:38   #13
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

What I do like is the ability to view the network and then with a good wifi signal tell the Element 9 to update all the software on the networked devices including the VHF in our case. I use the marina wifi which has a good signal and few users, then just let it run whilst I do other stuff.

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Old 14-11-2020, 10:18   #14
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

Couple of comments
1) why not use the device drops on the ST->STNG converter for the element and P70?
2) while the ACU400 can power the buss, is there times you’d leave the AP off to conserve power but still want the CP and other instruments active?
3) power from ACU400 is not in the middle of your network based on power consumption (LEN).
4) in addition to terminators fill empty device drops with black dummy plugs.
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Old 14-11-2020, 11:09   #15
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Re: Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

My ACU 100 and old X-5 are located side by side in the lazerette on Cbreeze. Reasonably protected/ convenient to 12V and rudder actuator (30 YO Benmar Drive). They are both powered from a common breaker (X-5 draws little power not driving a motor). Currently the X-5 supports NMEA 0183 to old Seatalk for the Pathfinder Radar and GPS SOG/ waypoints, the RM Converter connects old Seatalk to SeatalkNG network.

If the ACU 100 was to go south in a matter of 30 minutes (swapping a few wires) I could be back operating with the X-5.

A bit complicated but has worked out fine.


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