Raymarine Upgrade - please critique

[cottonsail]

Raymarine! UGH! Only 2 out of 5 Raymarine products have worked correctly. Autopilot 4000+ could not steer a Pearson 28 straight. No matter what I or their tech support tried. I40 wind and rotovector never worked even after sending the unit back to the factory twice. I 40 depth once in a while it gives me a reading, otherwise it's junk. My I40 knotmeter works perfectly. The P70 auto pilot works pretty good. I wanted to change it's reading from magnetic to true. Tech support says "we don't support that software anymore. You have to do an upgrade". The upgrade requires a service tech to come to the boat ($$$) or I could uninstall the entire unit and send it back to Raymarine. Not a good option. I'll stay with a magnetic readout. The unit does steer the boat pretty well. My whole point is I would be very hesitant to go with Raymarine. Everything else on my boat is Garmin. Garmin has been trouble free and excellent customer support.

[Slowpezz]

So this brings up an interesting question for me and my setup.

I had an electronics company install the Seatalk>Seatalk NG converter and a new i70s. I still have the old wind and multidata instruments and a vintage E-80.

What additional connections/pieces do I need to upgrade the E-80 and Analog Radar to a new Axiom and new Raymarine Doppler Radar?

I am also simultaneously installing a Vesper xb 8000 too.

Thanks for the feedback

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Slowpezz

So this brings up an interesting question for me and my setup.



I had an electronics company install the Seatalk>Seatalk NG converter and a new i70s. I still have the old wind and multidata instruments and a vintage E-80.



What additional connections/pieces do I need to upgrade the E-80 and Analog Radar to a new Axiom and new Raymarine Doppler Radar?



I am also simultaneously installing a Vesper xb 8000 too.



Thanks for the feedback

As you have the converter , you can now integrate the older Seatalk kit into the Seatalkng and axiom. The new quantum radar can either connect via Wi-Fi or via SeatalkHs ( which is effectively ethernet)

[mjoplin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

As you have the converter , you can now integrate the older Seatalk kit into the Seatalkng and axiom. The new quantum radar can either connect via Wi-Fi or via SeatalkHs ( which is effectively ethernet)

Another thought with the Quantum-II... I always like a hardwired connection better than wifi.

On my installation I used a POE Ethernet switch with SeatalkHS to RJ-45 connectors. Used a 12v-48v DC up-convertor to power the switch. Connected said switch to Axiom plotters, Quantum-II, and to garden variety POE cameras - one facing forward, one to the cockpit/stern, and one in the engine room. Works like a champ!

[john manning]

The easiest way to do this is to keep the old displays active. (Even if you hide them somewhere.) Connect any new displays to the seatalk network not to the transducers.

While most transducers between 1999 and now are compatible with the current displays (except for the version of seatalk used) you cannot rely on the calibration of the sensor matching the signal expected by the display. In other words, speed, depth, windspeed, will be inaccurate. Using the old display overcomes that problem.

(My company is a Raymarine product distributor.)

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Martin S

I am looking at a comprehensive upgrade of an old Raymarine system of 1999 vintage. I want to keep the depth, speed and wind transducers. I am leaning towards keeping the displays but would ideally add an i70s but am unsure on compatibility.
The attached diagram shows my planned setup and I would love to hear ideas to improve or anything I have got plain wrong.
If compatible I would plug an i70 directly in to the backbone in the idea it would read from the legacy transducers.
Thanks for your ideas.

Really, really helpful. Some questions:

1. How do you wire up the NMEA2000 power to the ACU 400 (I have the same model)
2. It is not clear to me where the legacy Seatalk bus actually starts - is that the ACU 400 as well?
3. In my setup I have an old Raymarine RL80 chart plotter which I retain as it is linked to the radar. Can I still use that? If so, do I have to change any connections?
4. I mainly use a modern Garmin chart plotter with its own power supply. Linked from Seatalk to NMEA0183 using an ES85001 convertor. I can control the autopilot from that.
5. One thing that I really, really want to avoid is one failure knocking out the whole system. When one Raymarine S60 instrument failed it knocked out the Seatalk bus with the result that nothing, including the autopilot, worked. Other than the Garmin due to that having its own power and inbuilt antenna. Several hundred miles hand steering was not fun.

[scfoster]

Thanks for all the info. Pulled the trigger on an i70s multifunction system pack (i70s display, speed/depth transducer & windspeed/direction), a 12" Axiom+ and a EV-200 autopilot.
Plan on keeping the current Raymarine instruments by moving them to the cabin with a converter so they can talk to the NMEA network.

[Frankly]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

Really, really helpful. Some questions:
2. It is not clear to me where the legacy Seatalk bus actually starts - is that the ACU 400 as well?
3. In my setup I have an old Raymarine RL80 chart plotter which I retain as it is linked to the radar. Can I still use that? If so, do I have to change any connections?
4. I mainly use a modern Garmin chart plotter with its own power supply. Linked from Seatalk to NMEA0183 using an ES85001 convertor. I can control the autopilot from that.

One of the disadvantages of NMEA 2000 is that if the network goes down it all goes down.

NMEA 0183 coming from Garmin to Pathfinder radar works as before (waypoints, COG, ect). My Garmin chartplotter are all 0183 and 0183HS (AIS).

I am using my old RM X-5 autopilot as a converter between 0183 and old SEATALK. I am sure there is some commercial stuff out there but now I have backup AP.

The RM old SEATALK and new SEATALK converter will tie these two networks together (old ST 60 instrument set )

Sounds like a mess but is playing nicely together at this point.


Frankly

[ATHughes]

[QUOTE=Martin S;3274211]Thanks for these great comments. Responding to a few of the comments and questions.
Plugging the VHF into the backbone: my vhf is an ICOM 506 which is a DSC with AIS receiver, it has it’s own GPS antenna. I prefer to leave this as a stand-alone and as a backup GPS and AIS
----------------------
Martin,
Having a back-up AIS is great. I had a new Vesper Marine AIS installed in NZ, along with an iCOM 506. As luck would have it, I was among the few boats that had a bad firmware load that after 4-months blew its AIS "engine" as we crossed the Indian Ocean in 2018. While others couldn't electronically 'see' us, the 506 painted perfectly onto our Garmin Chartplotter, and Vesper's president kindly sent a replacement to us in Durban. We sailed through the busy Singapore shipping lanes without undue stress and without needing to raise another ship via VHF. No problems since, although I am interested in updating my displays also.
Tom Hughes
S/Y Unconditional
Oyster 49.09

[Martin S]

Great to see these relevant additional posts that is giving a bigger base of knowledge to tap in to.
Responding to Alita’s questions, I stress I am answering from research rather than my installation that I plan to do in the spring.

1. How do you wire up the NMEA2000 power to the ACU 400 (I have the same model)
A: my plan is to bring the power supply from the switch panel I have in the vicinity of the chart table. This should be straight forward.

2. It is not clear to me where the legacy Seatalk bus actually starts - is that the ACU 400 as well?

A: In my diagram the legacy part is only the instruments attached to the Seatalk to Seatalk NG converter.

3. In my setup I have an old Raymarine RL80 chart plotter which I retain as it is linked to the radar. Can I still use that? If so, do I have to change any connections?

A: I suggest going to the Raymarine website and download the installation instructions for the Seatalk to Seatalk NG converter. This has some good examples of layouts and should answer your question.

4. I mainly use a modern Garmin chart plotter with its own power supply. Linked from Seatalk to NMEA0183 using an ES85001 convertor. I can control the autopilot from that.

5. One thing that I really, really want to avoid is one failure knocking out the whole system. When one Raymarine S60 instrument failed it knocked out the Seatalk bus with the result that nothing, including the autopilot, worked. Other than the Garmin due to that having its own power and inbuilt antenna. Several hundred miles hand steering was not fun.

A: This is an excellent point. I originally planned to keep the autopilot circuit separate from everything else and I have drifted from this objective. Revisiting my diagram, this need some modifications to achieve this and I will post this separately.

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by john manning

The easiest way to do this is to keep the old displays active. (Even if you hide them somewhere.) Connect any new displays to the seatalk network not to the transducers.

While most transducers between 1999 and now are compatible with the current displays (except for the version of seatalk used) you cannot rely on the calibration of the sensor matching the signal expected by the display. In other words, speed, depth, windspeed, will be inaccurate. Using the old display overcomes that problem.

(My company is a Raymarine product distributor.)

John, could you expand further on your comments. You seem to be saying that plugging a i70 into the network would result in it reading wrongly from the old transducers. Please can you clarify your post as you have some useful information here. Thanks.

[goboatingnow]

I wouldn’t agree , if you bridge for example old Seatalk equipment via the Seatalk converter then Seatalkng ( nmea2000) then the 2k PGNs will contain the same data , hence the 2K displays will mirror the older ones

Of course the issue is setup , you can’t setup older non 2k gear via 2K display devices. Mind you this is sadly true of 2K devices from different manufactures.

[Martin S]

I am hoping to finally start on this installation this summer. The Raymarine help desk provided the following very helpful advice about how to power the network and how to address the power between the 2 networks. My only complaint is why don't they spell this out clearly in their documentation as this is a very common installation!
From Raymarine:
" It is quite correct that SeaTalkNg is only allowed to have a single power supply at any point on the bus. Two voltage injections on the SeaTalkNG bus causes chaos.
You can of course do this with the ACU, but I would like to point out that if the ACU fails, the entire bus is without power supply. Therefore, Raymarine recommends that the SeaTalkNG bus is not powered by the ACU, but by a separate power cable that is plugged into a free SeaTalkNG spur cable connector.
Powering three instruments in the SeaTalk1 world via the converter is also not recommended. I would recommend powering and securing the SeaTalk1 separately. The connection cable between the SeaTalkNG converter and SeaTalk1 World should then be cut and the live wire (the red one) cut. So only data is exchanged between SeaTalk1 and SeaTalkNG, but no power! "

[cottonsail]

In my experience Raymarine is the absolute worst. I have bought 5 products from them and only 1 works as advertised. I-40 wind, speed and depth all failed to preform. Autopilot 4000+ could not steer a Pearson 28 in a reasonable straight line. I spent hours on the phone with their tech support to correct the steering issues. This was done inport and underway. All to no avail. The company ownership changes hands all too often. It was bought out of bankruptcy by FLIR. For now it's owned by Teledyne. The EV 100 wheel pilot works as advertised. Good luck.