Raymarine Autopilot ST 6001 & GYRO

[laforge24]

I would like to dismantle this device for investigation, it does not
keep it s course correct,
has anybody some plans or photos on what and how I am going to find there?
thanks

[TacomaSailor]

Which are you taking apart?

- course computer - nothing repairable inside - the only serviceable parts are the connectors

- Control Head - nothing serviceable inside

- Gyro - do you mean the Z179 Gyrorate transducer or the Fluxgate Computer?
I have fixed several broken wire problems inside the Fluxgate compass and it was fairly easy and straightforward. I have never had a need to take the Z179 apart.

I have installed, repaired, and updated my ST6000, Type 100 course computer system for 18 years. I then upgraded the whole thing to SPX-30 & P70 control head.

What do you mean when you say it does not hold course?
- the rudder does not move?
- the heading display does not show the correct heading?
- the boat wanders about a course?
- the boat turns to the new course but does not settle on the course?
- the course the boat holds is not the course you selected?
- the heading on the ST6000 does not match the GPS or traditional compass heading?

or...???

I have worked on all the problems above and most of them are due to bad data from the Fluxgate Compass.

Can you provide more details?

[laforge24]

When looking at the main unit(the one that makes the rudder move) it seemed not to
respond to the heading we gave it, changing course first 1, 2 , 5 or 10 degrees
at the 1, 2 ,5 the movement of the rod was nil , at 10 it moved but not the 10 we wanted !!
I thought this was a hydraulic unit and therefore thought it was a lack of hydraulic oil,
I worked enough hydraulics and seen similar defaults,
Otherwise, no idea how this thing together with its gyro works, simply said it looks like
the rod , at smaller movements , does not react, give it 90 degrees , it will move
But it has got to work better than that
thanks for your help, but explain only the mechanical part which could be worn,
for the electronics , I asume that works, I hope

[TacomaSailor]

In 19 years and a lot of miles with my ST6000, Type 1 Linear Drive, and Type 100 course computer I have had the following failures:

1 - stripped gears in Linear Drive due to operator error
2 - broken wires in fluxgate compass
3 - broken wire connecting fluxgate compass to course computer
4 - bad spring in connector at course computer
5 - broken wire in fluxgate compass (another !)
6 - bad diode in course computer
7 - corrosion on 12V power lead to linear drive
8 - unknown failure in fluxgate compass - non-repairable
9 - bad fuse holder in course computer

NINE (9) failures and only ONE (1) was mechanical and that was due to me forgetting to release the wheel lock when we had to leave an anchorage under dire emergency conditions in the middle of the night.

Your problem is most likely electronic

Try the trouble shooting steps, one by one, that I suggested. They have helped me easily solve all nine problems shown above.

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by laforge24

When looking at the main unit(the one that makes the rudder move) it seemed not to respond to the heading we gave it, changing course first 1, 2 , 5 or 10 degrees at the 1, 2 ,5 the movement of the rod was nil , at 10 it moved but not the 10 we wanted !!

I am guessing you are not understanding the relationship between compass, course computer, control head, rudder sensor, and Linear Drive unit (the thing that moves the rudder).

-You enter the desired course in the control head
- the course computer (CC) reads the compass data
- the CC reads the rudder location
- the CC determines which direction to turn the boat
- the CC determines how far to initially turn the rudder
- the CC powers the LD clutch to connect the motor to the drive ram via planetary gears
- the CC determines which LD power lead should be +
- the CC energizes the + lead and grounds the - lead
- the Linear drive motor spins up and it's belt drive spins the planetary gear
- the LD ram moves which moves the rudder
- the CC senses the rudder movement via the rudder sensor
- the CC senses the changing heading
- the CC increase or decreases the rate of turn by continuing to power the LD motor or stopping, or reversing the LD motor

.... and it goes on from there

So from your description of the problem it could be any of the bits in the system

I hope this pedantic lecture does not offend you. I have spent hundreds of hours working on Raymarine AP systems and find most folks do not understand them well enough to take a logical and systematic approach.

It seems that you think it is a mechanical problem so here is a test:

Here is an easy way to test the Linear Drive (LD) and separate the possible failure sources (electrical, electronics, mechanical)


0 - Center the rudder
1 - disconnect the +/- clutch and +/- Linear Drive power leads from the course computer
2 - connect the two black leads to ground
3 - connect the + clutch lead to a +12V power source
4 - touch the + 12V LD power lead to the +12V power source

the motor in the LD should move the rudder one direction or the other while the +12V is connected to a power source

5 - Recenter the rudder
6 - Remove the - (black) LD lead from ground
7 - Connect the + (red) LD lead to ground
8 - touch the - 12V(black) LD power lead to the +12V power source

the motor in the LD should move the rudder the OTHER direction while the -12V is connected to a power source

it should take about 4 - 6 seconds to go to full hard over from center

if you get full rudder movement in both directions you have determined the LD motor, clutch, gearing are working OK and you have a electronics problem in the course computer (most likely) or the compass

if you do not get full rudder movement then there is EITHER a mechanical (planetary gears or drive belt) OR an electrical problem in the Linear Drive unit.

You can open the LD unit up and independently test the clutch and the drive motor. If you are used to gears and motors - then it will be obvious how to test and repair the LD interenals

These devices are fairly simple and normal computer electronics fault isolation works well

[colemj]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

I have spent hundreds of hours working on Raymarine AP systems

Are you a RM service technician? If not, and this represents time spent repairing your personal system, that is a real bad mark on RM autopilots.

BTW, your advice is very good - I don't mean to sound like it isn't, I only wondered how someone got so many hours into repairs.

Mark

[TacomaSailor]

19 years - a lot of cruising - works out to about 10 to 15 hours per year

As far as I can tell there is no boat project of any kind, especially if you and your wife live on the boat and have WAY to much junk, that takes less than four hours.

I never have anyone work on any of my boat systems. I am sure an experienced Raymarine technician could have done all 9 repairs I show in less than 20 hours.

I like to work on stuff, especially electrical and electronics, and really dig into things when I have a problem. I read about them, post about them, talk to folks about them. Then I take the installation I have apart, figure out how it works, try to improve it, and then I usually re-do my entire installation based on my new knowledge and experience.

Some of the time I spent was due to my installation problems. For example - the broken wire from the Fluxgate Compass to the course computer - I spent a lot of time running the fine little wires 30 feet thru lockers, cabins, and bilges so they would be hidden. The problem is then how to repair breaks due to friction or chafe. So - the 2nd time I had a broken wire in the compass itself I decided to re-route all the wires.

I spent 50 hours last spring trying to figure out how to replace my ST6000 control head/ Type 100 course computer with a new P-30 control head / SPX30 course computer and how to replace the Linear Drive type 1 15 amp motor with a Type 2 30 amp motor. The time was mostly spent trying to integrate / connect the as much of the old stuff with the new stuff. None of that time was due to failures in the old stuff - just caution in replacing 19 year old equipment.

I have found the Autohelm / Raymarine autopilot electronics and hardware to be very reliable and robust. The ST6000 / Type 100 course computer / Gyrorate Transducer were able to sail downwind in the Straits of Juan de Fuca under an asymmetric spinnaker in 22+ knots apparent and 5' quartering seas. Held us on course at 7+ knots for hours.

[colemj]

OK, just wondering. For comparison, I spent a total of 1hr replacing a seal in the hydraulic ram of our old B&G AP system and 15min replacing a solenoid on it. That 1.25hrs was also the sum of the entire time spent on that AP over 13yrs.

Then we were struck by lightning. Not counting the installation time of our new Simrad AP with a RM T2 drive, we have spent 0hrs over the past 2 years on it.

I am expecting that 0hrs to remain for at least 10 more years. I do all our work also, so this doesn't mean only 0hrs of my time, but xhrs of someone else's.

10-15hrs/yr would have me seriously questioning the quality of my equipment.

Mark

[laforge24]

Thank yo Tacoma
for your time and willingness to explain detailed how to test the system better then just
opening up the LD
and I will do as you have described when I get down to the boat which is on the dry at about
400 miles , but when tested I will give the results, so thanks again for that,
If you have been working so thoroughly with your AP you must know
whether this LD unit has the belt driven system which I have read here somewhere
can really wear down, as well as a dust cumulation due to the wear on the brushes of
the elec. motor ?
Anyway I will test your way and have a look at the LD for wear and tear,
could be handy doing that while on the dry!

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by colemj

OK, just wondering. For comparison, I spent a total of 1hr replacing a seal in the hydraulic ram of our old B&G AP system and 15min replacing a solenoid on it. That 1.25hrs was also the sum of the entire time spent on that AP over 13yrs.

Then we were struck by lightning. Not counting the installation time of our new Simrad AP with a RM T2 drive, we have spent 0hrs over the past 2 years on it.

I am expecting that 0hrs to remain for at least 10 more years. I do all our work also, so this doesn't mean only 0hrs of my time, but xhrs of someone else's.

10-15hrs/yr would have me seriously questioning the quality of my equipment.

Mark

And you still like your Tritons???

[colemj]

Originally Posted by DotDun

And you still like your Tritons???

Yes. I sent back three 2yr old ones and they sent me seven new ones in exchange. What's not to like about that?

I didn't spend any time on them other than to send them back for replacement (for no reason at all it turns out). I guess I have spent a small amount of time (<1hr) installing software updates, but I spent that time on our Furuno chartplotter also.

Mark

[Sunnyside]

we recently bought a new Raymarine ev-?, and have tried numerous times to calibrate the compass which is just spins us around in a circle a couple of time before we disable it. We have followed all the instructions and contacted Raymarine at least twice. Now they say that those wires (that they said didn't matter on location), blue and brown, may need to be switched. We will see next time.