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21-09-2012, 01:22
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Radar - Mast vs. Arch
I'm looking at a Beneteau 461, equipped with an arch with two solar panels with radar mounted in the middle of the arch. My question is, would it be worth it to re-mount the radar on the mast rather than on the arch?
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21-09-2012, 01:28
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,076
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
if it casts a shadow on the panels then most definitely. If you are looking for better range, probably not.
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21-09-2012, 11:40
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
This is the setup:
I'm guessing that the radar dome would cut off a bit of sun at some point during the day. Good point.
How much more range do you gain from mounting mid mast?
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21-09-2012, 11:55
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore"
Posts: 7,557
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
It is not worth the time and money to change the radar to the mast. If you're really worried about shadowing the panels move them to the bimini. I would not worry about a bit of shadowing. In the islands most of the time you're anchored facing east. Don't think you'd lose a lot the way those panels are mounted.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
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21-09-2012, 12:00
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Thanks Vasco
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21-09-2012, 14:29
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,567
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
It's a bit hard to tell from that pic, but both the wind gen and the radar look like they will shade the panels. Depending on how the panels are regulated and wired, this may significantly reduce your daily production of electricity. This subject has been covered extensively on CF in recent weeks, so some research might be useful to you.
Moving the radar is an expensive process. I am just now in the process of finding out HOW expensive, for my mast is currently on the ground with a new radar being installed. Our old Furuno died recently... it was mounted UNDER the solar panels. This was good in that it didn't cast a shadow, but when the boat heeled it was blind to leeward. Bad installation!
We have had both arch and mast mounted radars, and I much prefer the mast. It's not a matter of ultimate range, but the ability to see over nearby obstructions (river/canal banks for instance) and I believe, a better view of small targets in big seas.
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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21-09-2012, 17:37
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Jim, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know the ballpark estimate of how much it is to move the radar once you figure it out.
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21-09-2012, 19:13
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#8
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Nearly an old salt
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
It's a bit hard to tell from that pic, but both the wind gen and the radar look like they will shade the panels. Depending on how the panels are regulated and wired, this may significantly reduce your daily production of electricity. This subject has been covered extensively on CF in recent weeks, so some research might be useful to you.
Moving the radar is an expensive process. I am just now in the process of finding out HOW expensive, for my mast is currently on the ground with a new radar being installed. Our old Furuno died recently... it was mounted UNDER the solar panels. This was good in that it didn't cast a shadow, but when the boat heeled it was blind to leeward. Bad installation!
We have had both arch and mast mounted radars, and I much prefer the mast. It's not a matter of ultimate range, but the ability to see over nearby obstructions (river/canal banks for instance) and I believe, a better view of small targets in big seas.
Cheers,
Jim
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+1. Having had both pole and mast mounted I now would only have mast mounted. The radar is too low in heavy weather on a pole/arch it sees significant more wave clutter and maintaining things like MARPA locks become real difficult. So just when you need it it degrades.
Dave
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Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
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21-09-2012, 20:00
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,782
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Wouldn't worry about it. When you need to replace the radar unit, however, consider placing it on the mast for greater range and keeping the radar's emissions further from your brain and eyes.
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21-09-2012, 20:35
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Any shadow that covers a bout half a cell or more will cut the entire panel's output to major extent. If they are wired in series, any shadow on one panel will cut both panels. Try it with something as small as a cell phone or eyeglass case. You'll probably be surprised at the difference in output.
Perhaps it would be easier and cheaper to move the panels to brackets on the aft rails.
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21-09-2012, 20:37
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,567
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs
Jim, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know the ballpark estimate of how much it is to move the radar once you figure it out.
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G'Day DD,
My costs would be meaningless to your application. It is highly dependent on the specific boat, local costs for crane hire, riggers hourly rates and all those intangible factors that hype up your final costs.
There are a couple of sorta fixed things, though: the mast should come out to do a good job. I installed my first radar in situ and it worked, but it was a bugger of a job and the cable was never properly secured. A new conduit is usually needed. And in most cases one needs a longer cable, and those puppies ain't cheap!
In our case there are lots of additional jobs being done at the same time, so splitting out costs is hard. If I were you I'd approach a local rigger and get a quote for your boat. It will likely cost more than the estimate, but it is a starting point.
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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22-09-2012, 18:39
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
SailFastTri, I don't really like the idea of having solar panels anywhere but mounted on a secure arch. When I see people who have them on top of the bimini or on brackets on the aft rail, all I can think about is having strong winds or perhaps a wave rip them off.
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22-09-2012, 18:40
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Morgan Moorings 50
Posts: 1,886
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Jim, thanks. I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself... I'm going to need the boat first in order to get an estimate!
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04-11-2012, 06:50
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona/Rhode Island
Boat: Swan 432
Posts: 820
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
A stupid question from someone who has never had radar on a sailboat. I have seen some domes mounted on the backstay and they were gimballed so they would always be level. Are mast/arch mounted domes also gimballed?
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04-11-2012, 10:13
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,276
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Re: Radar - Mast vs. Arch
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs
This is the setup:

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I see stuff like this all the time.
We made the same mistake on our previous boat with a wind generator.
Cut it off and move the radar. I will make a HUGE difference in your electrical output.
Our radar is on the mast.
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'You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
Mae West
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