North Up or Heading Up?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by lateral

Find the adamance of the exclusive NUers puzzling.

More puzzling than the adamance of the exclusive CUers and HUers?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

More puzzling than the adamance of the exclusive CUers and HUers?

I haven't seen many of those, if any ... just adamant NU's that think everyone else is an idiot vs. those that say ... whatever floats your boat.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

The people who are firmly N-Up are definitely old-school paper chart people, but not all old-school paper chart people failed to convert. My experience dates to Loran and Paper Charts. There are times in crowded areas where N-Up simply induces human error to translate the screens, especially with radar on H-UP. Why would anyone do that, especially since NAV mode keeps the screen from swinging?

North-up is useful for marcro planning. Other than that, it's outdated. Back in the day of paper charts there was no choice. Now there is. How many of y'all always run Google Maps in your car on N-UP?

Peter

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I don't get this "North up" clinging. In real life you dont't twist your neck to be "North up", you simply look ahead. Why should it be any different while using a chart plotter?

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Even though any answer is correct. I agree that COG up ( which is not necessarily “ course up “ ) is typically the best to maintain spacial awareness .

A chart plotter is not a chart. They are used in fundamentally different ways these days , a chart plotter has more in comparison with a Google maps or a car sat nav , then an admirably chart. COG up is actually typically better the heading up on a small boat.

That is it’s often on the helm being viewed in real time. In my view maximum spacial awareness is maintained by heading or COG up rather then North up.

Route planing , route plotting etc are completely different activities largely carried out on paper charts and done in plenty of time North up is perfectly reasonable for that activity.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

North up for planning and plotting a course. Course up when underway. Much more important to stay oriented to surroundings than to an arbitrary reference. If radar is needed I usually use split screen rather than radar overlay. If using radar overlay, heading up on chart so both radar and chart match what I will see with my eyes if the fog clears.

Originally Posted by W3GAC

Sailing for 40+ yrs, including San Diego to St Thomas and 2 yrs cruising in Caribbean then up to NYC area for 10 yrs, then down to Chesapeake Bay 99% of time I used ‘Course Up.’ Who cares where North is! I and whoever is at the wheel cares what’s ahead, matching sight line with chartplotter detail, radar…

Originally Posted by gregfreed

I drove jet airplanes for 30 years, I’ve never seen anyone ever use North Up, obviously when things are happening fast intuitive is better, however after a couple weeks of 3 on 6 off 5 kts can feel pretty fast.

Originally Posted by argonauta1

I am a retired military pilot and have circumnavigated under sail.

Course up, not heading up, is the most intuitive option. North up on large scale is good for perspective but for nitty gritty enroute guidance underway: course up.

To clarify, course from A to B is the objective, heading is what one steers to maintain course depending upon leeway, current, and drift. The result is Track Made Good which might not maintain your vessel on course so the skipper will adjust heading to to stay on course and so on. . . .. Often, the skipper will need to regain course to avoid danger zones, obstacles like rocks or islands, thus he will wish to regain course not simply head for destination. That means a heading correction to regain the desired course. There have been many vessels lost as a result of being off course and correcting by simply going from present position to destination. crunch!

With north up selected on a track plotter, perspective clearly displaying all of the above is non existent.

Originally Posted by KevinE

I personally see no advantage to north up. Why subject you brain to one additional calculation: The reef is on the port side of the display. To steer away from it turn to port. It's not logical and error prone when you have to make rapid decisions. I also wouldn't mix it up on different displays in the vessel and expect crew to be fully on top of this.

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I haven't seen many of those, if any ... just adamant NU's that think everyone else is an idiot vs. those that say ... whatever floats your boat.

Really? None, huh?
Please post any quote where anyone has said everyone else is an idiot.
Don't think you'll find one. Don't be so dramatic.

I'm not even sure who is adamant about NU - many of its proponents have intimated there are occasions to use CU/HU, and many others have simply implied it's their personal preference with no judgment one way or the other.

[requiem]

A skilled person should be able to work with either mode reasonably effectively, as well as understanding when switching between them is appropriate.

An inexperienced person may simply go with what feels more intuitive and, not having familiarity with the others, could end up in a situation where they have much more limited situational awareness as a result. It doesn't mean they'll end up in aground or in a collision, but like smoking and lung cancer, it can certainly increase the odds.

My preference for North up is more related to vessel traffic; when the screen stays fixed it's easier for me to understand what other vessels are doing in good time. (Anything large enough to be a concern is on AIS.) The recent post here raised a different case: zero visibility, in which case there's nothing to compare against what you see on the plotter.

If someone inexperienced is trying to steer to the plotter, it seems similer to the case of someone who's not instrument-rated flying an airplane in a cloud. Cumulative steering errors could easily result in the vessel being set to the side, until eventually she's on the rocks. Could a more experienced navigator avoid this? Likely; both from steering by compass and being cognizant of their distance to shore. But the inexperienced person is more likely fixated on their goal, and so long as the chart shows blue between them and it the danger may go unnoticed until too late to steer clear.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by requiem

(Anything large enough to be a concern is on AIS.)

Yes, I know this sentence is a land mine (sea mine?), so let me clarify.... In the daytime, with good visibility, I can see other boats. In limited visibility radar steps in. It's the large vessels I want to be tracking much further out. AIS, VTS, etc. tells me things like where the vessel is headed, which bridge span it's going for, etc, so that I can be someplace else.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by requiem

A skilled person should be able to work with either mode reasonably effectively, as well as understanding when switching between them is appropriate.

An inexperienced person may simply go with what feels more intuitive and, not having familiarity with the others, could end up in a situation where they have much more limited situational awareness as a result. It doesn't mean they'll end up in aground or in a collision, but like smoking and lung cancer, it can certainly increase the odds.

My preference for North up is more related to vessel traffic; when the screen stays fixed it's easier for me to understand what other vessels are doing in good time. (Anything large enough to be a concern is on AIS.) The recent post here raised a different case: zero visibility, in which case there's nothing to compare against what you see on the plotter.

If someone inexperienced is trying to steer to the plotter, it seems similer to the case of someone who's not instrument-rated flying an airplane in a cloud. Cumulative steering errors could easily result in the vessel being set to the side, until eventually she's on the rocks. Could a more experienced navigator avoid this? Likely; both from steering by compass and being cognizant of their distance to shore. But the inexperienced person is more likely fixated on their goal, and so long as the chart shows blue between them and it the danger may go unnoticed until too late to steer clear.

I typically use course up. With that I get a stabilised screw. Optionally I can enable true motion

Ships headings are easily determined and you concerns about inexperienced steering near no relation to real life. Cumulative steering errors show up in north up or course up. In lots of cases you are displaying a heading and course vector so you can clearly determine if your heading is leading you into danger

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I typically use course up. With that I get a stabilised screw. Optionally I can enable true motion

Your sexual predilections are of no interest to us