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28-01-2020, 05:08
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#16
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanglewood
It sounds like it converts N2K to 0183 and spits that out over UDP so tablets and other gadgets can pick it up, either wired or wireless. Dozens of products do this, so not something new by itself.
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I never had one that converts to/from Ethernet before. Also, on wifi converters, many like my Vesper AIS do not provide a complete conversion. There’s always something missing, like rudder position or alarm indicator etc. I have not yet had the time to evaluate Yacht Devices implementation but have a good feeling incl. about them correcting any issues I come up with.
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28-01-2020, 05:10
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
We just had someone comment that SKserver is compatible. Manufacturers aren’t waiting anymore and launching products that work and are compatible with each other. I’m also sure they can adapt their protocols as these are the smaller can-do type of companies
About udp: on udp one can broadcast, I.e. the server broadcasts a stream and many listeners can dial into that and receive the data. There’s also tcp which is a one on one protocol with full error correction and bidirectional
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A nice device! Yacht Devices strikes again -- a very innovative company with cool stuff.
I wish I could do a TCP connection on my system, but unfortunately using the built in 0183 converter in the B&G Zeus I am limited to UDP. I've got no choice however because I need the radar connection and I can only get that over the Navico Ethernet network.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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28-01-2020, 05:16
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Hingham
Boat: Dickerson 37AC
Posts: 665
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Interested.
I own an IoT company that builds remote ultrasonic sensors for process steam customers. We get data from sensors up to cloud using LoRaWAN and LTE-M1 gateways to Azure.
But being a boat owner I keep looking at my boat as a test bed for other cool stuff I can open source.
I've (OK, my developer...) played with some neat Nordic semiconductor stuff, mainly around the BLE and mesh network.
Nordic just released in last few months the NRF9160 LTE module in both a Dev Kit as well as a Nordic Thingy:91
https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-...its/nRF9160-DK
https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-...rdic-Thingy-91
I bought the Thingy:91 as something I can put on my boat and monitor onboard stuff like temp, humidity, GPS. Basically a low-effort asset tracker. Will see how it all works when I get boat in water in May.
But my real interest is getting an interface from my NMEA2K network into the Nordic DevKit. This would allow me to backhaul all data via cellular to the cloud. I'd like to know how many times my bilge pump has cycled in the night, or if my boat has gone somewhere without me on it, and where it's headed
I don't possess any programming chops, my developer does all that stuff. But I'm happy to explore the concept if others are interested.
Another really neat concept I'm following closely is the ability to use LoRaWAN to communicate with satellites. Since LoRaWAN excels in ultra low power applications and can transmit tiny packets a long way (record is 760km), seems it could provide a great way to communicate offshore without cellular access.
The company working on this is Lacuna Space in UK. They are about to launch dev kits to send LoRa packets to their low orbiting satellites.
https://lacuna.space/
Some early developers have already tested it and it works well.
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28-01-2020, 05:21
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#19
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
A nice device! Yacht Devices strikes again -- a very innovative company with cool stuff.
I wish I could do a TCP connection on my system, but unfortunately using the built in 0183 converter in the B&G Zeus I am limited to UDP. I've got no choice however because I need the radar connection and I can only get that over the Navico Ethernet network.
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This is why I demand separation of tasks. My VHF has NMEA2000 but no GPS and no AIS. It otherwise outperforms other VHF radios for it’s primary task.
My network has NMEA2000, Ethernet, wifi and Internet and each part is done by a device that is designed for doing just that and as good or better than anything else.
This YD Ethernet gateway coupled with the GL.iNet router is a sweet part of that.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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28-01-2020, 05:28
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#20
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
This is why I demand separation of tasks. My VHF has NMEA2000 but no GPS and no AIS. It otherwise outperforms other VHF radios for it’s primary task.
My network has NMEA2000, Ethernet, wifi and Internet and each part is done by a device that is designed for doing just that and as good or better than anything else.
This YD Ethernet gateway coupled with the GL.iNet router is a sweet part of that.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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You're exposing your boat network to the Internet? I would be afraid to do that. Probably with your IT skills you are more confident in being able to erect an air-tight firewall, than I am.
I like your router. My GoFree router has died so maybe that would be a decent candidate to replace it.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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28-01-2020, 05:33
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#21
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,866
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
You're exposing your boat network to the Internet? I would be afraid to do that. Probably with your IT skills you are more confident in being able to erect an air-tight firewall, than I am.
I like your router. My GoFree router has died so maybe that would be a decent candidate to replace it.
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You have to... how else do you get software updates, charts etc? The times where memory cards were jockeyed around are behind us
This router is great. When you connect an iPhone to it’s USB or a cellular jet pack/mifi kind of gadget and see it do it’s magic with OpenWRT it’s sweet. It can also uplink to marina wifi etc.
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28-01-2020, 05:49
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#22
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
. . . The times where memory cards were jockeyed around are behind us
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They are? I guess I didn't get that memo. I do in fact download charts and software updates using my laptop and transfer to SD card or USB stick. I guess it's easier if you just connect directly, but with my mediocre IT skills, I'm afraid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
This router is great. When you connect an iPhone to it’s USB or a cellular jet pack/mifi kind of gadget and see it do it’s magic with OpenWRT it’s sweet. It can also uplink to marina wifi etc.
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Sold. I'll order one today. Not the first gadget I've bought in imitation of you
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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28-01-2020, 06:35
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 3,090
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
I never had one that converts to/from Ethernet before. Also, on wifi converters, many like my Vesper AIS do not provide a complete conversion. There’s always something missing, like rudder position or alarm indicator etc.
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Someone (Jeff was it?) used to be on here promising ongoing development work to add more data types to the Vesper AIS-to-WiFi conversion. That effort seems to have faded away. They make good hardware. But if they're going to follow Garmin's business model and declare last year's hardware unsupported "legacy" products, I'm done.
Changing subject just a little...
While we've got so many great minds gathered here, I wonder if anyone has done any work with fuel flow monitoring?
It seems to me it shouldn't cost thousands of dollars to count pulses in a flow sensor and subtract the values from a return sensor to calculate a rate.
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28-01-2020, 06:40
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanglewood
So I’m trying to understand exactly what the device does.
It sounds like it converts N2K to 0183 and spits that out over UDP so tablets and other gadgets can pick it up, either wired or wireless. Dozens of products do this, so not something new by itself.
It also sounds like it does some proprietary N2K PGN encapsulation over TCP or UDP? What else can it talk to? Just another of the same device to create a bridge over Ethernet? Or are there other products that can utilize the PGN stream?
This later part is what OneNet is supposed to standardize. Has digital yacht built this to comply with OneNet, when and if it ever comes out? Or is it there own thing? I wouldn’t blame them for doing their own thing. In fact, if a handful of vendors created their own and published it, it would probably take off as has 0183 over UDP. OneNet has been an epic fail, leaving a huge gap.
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It's basically a neat alternative to raspberry Pi and a can-usb adapter.
I like that they include the propriety Raymarine Autopilot sentences so you can control that better, but the pi with signalk does the same thing.
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28-01-2020, 06:43
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom
. . While we've got so many great minds gathered here, I wonder if anyone has done any work with fuel flow monitoring?
It seems to me it shouldn't cost thousands of dollars to count pulses in a flow sensor and subtract the values from a return sensor to calculate a rate.
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It's somewhat more complicated than that -- you need temperature compensation too.
I have the Maretron fuel flow meters. They didn't cost thousands and they work great. It's much cheaper than FlowScan etc. -- and easier to install -- because you use your existing instruments to display the data.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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28-01-2020, 11:00
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
It's somewhat more complicated than that -- you need temperature compensation too.
I have the Maretron fuel flow meters. They didn't cost thousands and they work great. It's much cheaper than FlowScan etc. -- and easier to install -- because you use your existing instruments to display the data.
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Do you use the FFM100?
How do you rate it? Is it available as a kit or must you buy the NMEA2000 interface separately to the sensors?
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28-01-2020, 11:18
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#27
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife
Do you use the FFM100?
How do you rate it? Is it available as a kit or must you buy the NMEA2000 interface separately to the sensors?
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Yes. It works as advertised.
You need two sensors and the interface box. Total cost was less than a boat buck IIRC, but it's been some years.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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28-01-2020, 12:18
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 143
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah
But my real interest is getting an interface from my NMEA2K network into the Nordic DevKit. This would allow me to backhaul all data via cellular to the cloud. I'd like to know how many times my bilge pump has cycled in the night, or if my boat has gone somewhere without me on it, and where it's headed
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You can do all that with off the shelf hardware:
- a Raspberry Pi
- an N2K-USB adapterer or the YD stick in this thread
- an LTE stick
using
- Signal K server (to convert the data from N2K and write it into Influx)
- InfluxDb and Grafana (to store the data and draw pretty graphs)
- ZeroTier (to provide secure remote access over Internet to stuff running on the boat)
I'd imagine that would be less work than starting with an LTE module. Not quite plug and play, more like configure stuff to work together.
Then again you said you have somebody to do it for you...
(disclaimer: I am heavily involved with Signal K)
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28-01-2020, 12:21
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 143
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
I wish I could do a TCP connection on my system, but unfortunately using the built in 0183 converter in the B&G Zeus I am limited to UDP. I've got no choice however because I need the radar connection and I can only get that over the Navico Ethernet network.
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I didn't quite get what the problem here is - care to explain your setup in more detail?
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28-01-2020, 12:25
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Westerly Oceanlord
Posts: 513
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Re: New product NMEA2000 to Ethernet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanglewood
It sounds like it converts N2K to 0183 and spits that out over UDP so tablets and other gadgets can pick it up, either wired or wireless. Dozens of products do this, so not something new by itself.
[...]
This later part is what OneNet is supposed to standardize. Has digital yacht built this to comply with OneNet, when and if it ever comes out?
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The link I gave above may have been a bit obscured but it describes what it does better than I can paraphrase: https://www.yachtd.com/news/ethernet_gateway.html
I don't have extensive knowledge in this product space but converting between n2k on one side and, on the IP-over-ethernet side, converted NMEA-0183, raw N2K PGNs and a web server displaying data. By contrast, the CANboat weapon-of-choice the actisense ngt-1 just converts n2k to pgns over serial, the separate ngw-1 converts to nmea-0183 over serial and as mikedefieslife points out, you then need something to punt those data onto a network.
Note that Yacht devices are not digital yacht, though both have interesting products.
Nope this looks nothing like onenet. It's IPv4 for a start and optionally uses broadcast.
The problem with ad-hoc implementations is that everyone will do them a bit differently, actually quite important stuff doesn't get defined and marine electronics experts are not necessarily network programming experts so you're likely to get shonky stuff like IPv4 broadcast. I've yet to sit down and look hard at n2k but I have a long list of gripes about the nmea-0183-over-ip non-standards we've all ended up using. Would be a shame if n2k-over-ip goes the same way.
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