New Auto Pilot-B&G vs. Raymarine

[Tmacmi]

I am considering the installation of a new autohelm in my Beneteau 331. Its loaded empty displacement is 5,000 kg. With a 20% add factor the displacement is approximately 6,000 kg. (that factor is probably high because we are occasional coastal cruisers)

I am considering the installation of a Raymarine EV-200 Electric Ram or a B&G Hydraulic RAM.

I have a clear understanding of the kit I need from Raymarine and how to install it in my boat. However, I have experienced and heard bad reviews of Raymarine.

I have not worked with B&G products before, but it seems to be a gold standard. I have done bit of research and found their list of recommended parts for a hydraulic ram system but it left me with questions. If you have installed one of these systems any comments are appreciated. If you have any feedback on B&G in general. That would be appreciated too.

This is list of recommended parts and my questions.

The recommendation is as follows:

NAC-3 Core Pack
Triton 2 Pilot Keypad
Triton 2 Display

Hydraulic Ram TO-12V
DD15 Drive unit - rudder feedback RF300 included
Draglink 200-300mm
Draglink 300-400mm
Draglink 400-500mm

My questions are as follows:

I am unclear as to why the DD15 Drive unit is required along with the Hydraulic Ram
I cannot find mounting instructions or schematics for the Hydraulic Ram, do you have a reference?
Is there an B&G auto pilot "package" that is specified to make ordering easier.
If I add wind and depth/speed instruments, with they plug directly into the core pack?
If I add wind and depth/speed instruments, will I need a separate display?

Thank you for your help as always!

[stevead]

From a recent upgrade on a neighbour's boat.

NAC-3 Autopilot Computer
RF-25 Rudder Feedback Unit
Precision 9 Compass
Existing Zeus 2 Chartplotter
Existing Simrad HLD2000 Hydraulic Drive

The NAC-3, RF25, Compass & Chartplotter are connected via NMEA 2000.

If you have an existing NMEA 2000 wind transducers, you will be able to select "wind mode", ie. steer to an apparent wind angle.

The HLD2000 drive & clutch are connected directly to the NAC-3

You will either need a hydraulic drive or an electromechanical drive such as the one you mentioned: DD15. You do not need both as you initially thought.

It sems as though the DD15 includes a RF300 Rudder Feedback Unit. The RF300 is a frequency unit and is connected directly to the NAC-3.

The NAC-3 installation guide may be helpful.

Depending on your chartplotter selection (Zeus, Vulcan etc.) you may or may not require a Triton Display & Pilot Keypad for the initial NAC-3 Commissioning. My neighbour was able to commission the NAC-3 with their existing Zeus 2 chartplotter, they did not require a Triton Display & Pilot Keypad.

You'll need to do your own homework on what is the most cost-effective purchase mechanism, buying core-packs, bundles or individual components.

[azul_b]

I have a Beneteau 343 and found the old ST4000+ wheel pilot only useful in near calm conditions.

I self installed a Garmin drive (a Jeffa LD100 with built in rudder sense) and the Tinypilot pypilot unit and motor controller from Sean.

Works great and I've used upwind & down in about 25 knots windspeed and 1 to 2 meter seas.

I have a old phone mounted on the wheel grab rail with bicycle holder that controls the Pypilot over WiFi and also TV IR to adjust heading and a garage door RF fob as a kill switch.

[cr180]

Can’t comment on the Raymarine. The B&G is actually still the original Robertson design, (both hydraulic and control with exception of upgraded NMEA 2000 network) which is we’ll regarded. Robertson bought by Simrad, bought by Navico. Then B&G bought by Navico. Navico now offers the Robertson product under both Simrad and B&G names. I Have an original Robertson ram and hydraulic pump and recent B&G electronics. Pleased with performance.

With regard to ram and pump installation, you should be able to find installation instructions on line. You’ll need the product model numbers for both the ram and pump.

[cr180]

Should have also mentioned, can control B&G autopilot from either dedicated control, Triton display, or Zeus plotter. With the NMEA 2000 network, you can also display any data: depth, wind, etc on either the Triton or Zues. But all sensors and transducers must be NMEA 2000 with NMEA 2000 cables.

I opted to control autopilot from Zeus, with backup from Triton if Zeus were to fail.

[Chotu]

I have a question.

Why electric Raymarine and Hydraulic B&G.

Brand names aside, hydraulic APs are just more robust. So of course the hydraulic one.

[George_SD]

I've installed the Raymarine wheel model on our Beneteau 323. Works fine so far, but that's not the kit you are looking at. In terms of B&G vs Raymarine - I think they are pretty close in quality if not the same. My friend has a full B&G setup and had some major problems with the chart plotters (dual helm, same problem on both). The screens were delaminating, even though the units were not old. The company refused to replace the units and only offered a discount on new plotters, which still resulted in $$$.

[merrimac]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I have a question.

Why electric Raymarine and Hydraulic B&G.

Brand names aside, hydraulic APs are just more robust. So of course the hydraulic one.

You can also use any drive whether hydraulic/electric or pure electric with both systems. You aren't tied to the "default" drive.

With the B&G NAC (and older AC12/42) you can use either a 12V or 24V drive when the computer is fed with 24V, this can be an advantage to some. The NAC does use a frequency driven rudder feedback which is more robust but you can't use the rudder feedback from an older ray marine. Not sure what the vice-versa is regarding Raymarine.

For under-deck electric drives the Raymarine is actually pretty OK, the gears give out at some point but that is fixable. The Jefa DD drives work as well, and they are available for bigger boats than Ray.

Hydraulic is stronger and generally has a longer life as the gear in the electric motor doesn't wear out easily, failures are usually with the seals.

Merrimac has a dual drive setup with hydraulic L&S drive + Simrad motor plus a Jefa DD3. The DD3 is much quieter so we use it most of the time. Both are so strong a human cannot pull/push the tiller at all...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by merrimac

You can also use any drive whether hydraulic/electric or pure electric with both systems. You aren't tied to the "default" drive.

With the B&G NAC (and older AC12/42) you can use either a 12V or 24V drive when the computer is fed with 24V, this can be an advantage to some. The NAC does use a frequency driven rudder feedback which is more robust but you can't use the rudder feedback from an older ray marine. Not sure what the vice-versa is regarding Raymarine.

For under-deck electric drives the Raymarine is actually pretty OK, the gears give out at some point but that is fixable. The Jefa DD drives work as well, and they are available for bigger boats than Ray.

Hydraulic is stronger and generally has a longer life as the gear in the electric motor doesn't wear out easily, failures are usually with the seals.

Merrimac has a dual drive setup with hydraulic L&S drive + Simrad motor plus a Jefa DD3. The DD3 is much quieter so we use it most of the time. Both are so strong a human cannot pull/push the tiller at all...

But that’s not what the original post said.

Are you registered here as a marine service provider? It doesn’t look like it.

Also, by robust, I don’t mean if you can move the tiller with your hand. Good Lord. I hope you couldn’t. I mean hours of use without breaking.