modernizing instruments and displays

[Ayb]

I'm planning to update and modernize my sailing instruments and basic electronics and need some ideas and advice. I'd like to solve a number of problems with my existing "vehicle network" but hopefully leave it expandable so I can do things in phases.

Right now I have a Raymarine C80 plotter with radar, an AIS650, and GPS. In the pilot house I have a steering station that contains:
- Raymarine ST60 series sailing instruments of which:
- depth sounder has stopped working (not yet sure if it's the transducer or display), that's my biggest problem right now
- tridata display is failing (not all segments work)
- wind instrument seems erratic
- Simrad AP20 auto pilot display (this does talk to the C80) -- I at least get compass and rudder angle this way but it's not very nice to use
- basic engine instruments (tachometer/hours, temperature, oil pressure)

At the helm I have a compass and the auto pilot controls. The C80 swings into the companionway for use at the helm.

The Raymarine stuff is on the old SeaTalk proprietary bus and I don't really have anything using SeaTalkNG or nmea2000 yet though I understand the C80 and AIS650 are capable.

My pilot house has no compass and it's a steel boat so I was planning to add a modern GPS compass and use some kind of repeater or nmea2000 display at the pilot house.

I don't like looking into the pilot house for the sailing instruments and given the Raymarine stuff is failing I was thinking this is where I should start:

1. get the i-series SeatalkNG Raymarine instruments (depth, tridata, and wind) and mount them in the cockpit rather than the pilot house steering station. Get them to talk to the C80 so everything works as before.
2. get an nmea2000 repeater / data display for my pilot house "dashboard" and use the new Raymarine instruments to repeat wind, depth, speed, etc. there
3. add a GPS compass to the network and get it displayed on that repeater

For the "dashboard" I was thinking of using the Yach Devices bridge and then some kind of tablet or a Simrad repeater.

Later if I decide to upgrade the C80, I should be able to choose a more modern Raymarine plotter and radar set and everything should work together, or at least I hope so. The C80 and radar work fine now so I was hoping to leave them alone.

Does that plan make sense or should I start by changing the sailing instruments along with the plotter?

[ranger58sb]

I'm a little confused by your use of "pilot house" and "steering station" and "helm" and various instruments at each... but I think you mean you can drive from at least two different places, yes?

Much depends on your budget.

Several modern MFDs (multi-function displays) will handle radar, depth/speed/temp and full-on sonar (e.g., fishfinder, bottom discrimination, etc.,), engine data... and can be connected to AP and wind instruments and so forth.

I might suggest you do some shopping on the Furuno, Simrad/B&G, Garmin, Raymarine sites to see what MFDs they offer that might float your boat... and see if there's a way to build your to-be system within budget and/or in stages if you have to.

But the reason I suggest that is 'cause you might find it possible, maybe even easy, to just plop a decent MFD at each of your one or two helms and then start connecting whatever... using new "whatevers" where necessary, using old "whatevers" where possible or until budget allows change.

-Chris

[Ayb]

Right, I can drive from two places but realistically only in the cockpit right now because the pilot house windows are foggy and need to be replaced.

The helm (as I call it), in the cockpit has the wheel, a compass, and the engine throttle and gear shift.

Step down the companionway and you're in the pilot house, there's a second wheel and all the other instruments and one could steer there. From there one more companionway leads to the salon.

Once the depth sounder display stopped working I started troubleshooting but given the age of the st60 and lack of nmea2000 or seatalkNG I started thinking that maybe I should start by replacing those instruments and making a modern network. To keep things less expensive and in phases I was hoping to retain the old c80 plotter and radar. I also started thinking that the location of the wind and tridata displays isn't great, I'd like them in the cockpit or on a repeater that's easier to read than the c80.

I'll take a look at the MFD options.

[Hartleyg]

Ayb,
A couple of thoughts - we've been thru the RayMarine upgrade process on our boat as well We replaced our old chartplotter (one step older than yours) back in 2013 with an e95, but kept the ST60 instruments because they were working fine, and put in a SeaTalk-to-SeatalkNG converter. This worked fine until last summer when a nearby lightning strike took out the ST60 Wind instrument.
So last fall, we replaced all of the ST60 stuff, removed the converter (which was immediately put back to work on a friend's boat!) with an ITC-5 (which puts the depth/wind/speed/temp transducers directly onto the SeaTalkNG/NMEA2000 buss) and a couple newer instruments: an i70, an i60 Wind and an i50 Depth. I like a dedicated Depth and Wind readout, and the i70 allows me to configure anything else I want from the N2K buss depending on what we're up to. We also have two more i70s below - one in the salon/nav station and one aft by the master SR bunk - it is wonderful to see whats going on without going topside in the rain . You can easily change the display to whatever you need/want - for example, in the stateroom I have ours showing Depth when we're anchored and SOG when we're underway. I also have the wind rose with wind speed all the time as well as heading, so I can see what mother nature is up to.

We will probably upgrade the e95 in the next few years - the software in it is no longer supported, and the instrument itself is showing its age - the seals are failing and drenching it with sea water results in a real mess.

The new Ray plotters have moved away from the proprietary SeaTalkNG connectors in favor of the N2K-standard ones, but you can buy adapters for whatever you need - if I was installing fresh, I'd probably use the standard N2K stuff, even though the STNG ones are slimmer and easier to pull.

One website you might check out for ideas is www.Panbo.com - they cover Marine electronics in detail, and they aren't beholden to any manufacturer.

Good Luck!

Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Ayb]

Thank you! It sounds like the iTC-5 and then one or two MFD units would accomplish most of what I want.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Ayb

Thank you! It sounds like the iTC-5 and then one or two MFD units would accomplish most of what I want.

and ITC-5 and the new model i70 gives you data viewability without multiple MFDs ( ie like in the saloon)

I agree that any update path is best started by getting everything in NMEA2000/Seatalkng and then deciding on the viewing options as a separate task, if the ST60 transducers are sound that is, If you have failing transducers then it may be better to replace them with NMEA2000 direct transducers and forgo the ITC-5

[ranger58sb]

As far as I know, the NMEA2000 transducers only do depth, speed, and temp. No bottom discrimination with those, I think.

-Chris

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

As far as I know, the NMEA2000 transducers only do depth, speed, and temp. No bottom discrimination with those, I think.

-Chris

correct , but bottom discrimination requires dedicated instrument feeds typically, dont think the OP has that ability now

[Ayb]

I'm hoping my depth sounder itself is good and it's the ST60 that has failed but I can't prove it one way or the other without something else trying to read the sounder. I was thinking of getting the iTC-5 now, connecting a bridge to it and just checking whether I'm getting sensible depth readings. If I'm not, hopefully I can change out the transducer in the water (I think it's a P19 but I need to double check that it's the retractable one), I know it's 200kHz either way. If nothing can be done about it in the water, I'll try to hold off until the next haul out when we're pulling the main mast anyway and at that time I can do a lot more work.

[David Mathis]

A few years ago I upgraded from the older RayMarine system. After looking at numerous systems, I bought Garmin. It's very user friendly and has the best customer service of any marine electronics company I've had to contact. Rather than give a list of reasons why Garmin was selected, I recommend you look at the product. No, I don't own stock in the company or work for them.

On the other end of the spectrum, Lowrance has, by far, the worst customer service of any marine electronics company I have contacted. I would consider hand drawn charts, a lead line, and semaphore flags before buying any Lowrance product.

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by Ayb

I'm hoping my depth sounder itself is good and it's the ST60 that has failed but I can't prove it one way or the other without something else trying to read the sounder. I was thinking of getting the iTC-5 now, connecting a bridge to it and just checking whether I'm getting sensible depth readings. If I'm not, hopefully I can change out the transducer in the water (I think it's a P19 but I need to double check that it's the retractable one)

I'm in a similar position to you, although upgrading from ST50.

Mine is non-removable depth sensor and I believe it to be a P19. Actually, P19 is the Airmar part number, and Raymarine refer to it as the Z091 in the ST50 manual.

Raymarine are not confident that transducers as old as this will work with the iTC-5, I'm afraid. I spoke to one of their support staff on the phone and he hummed and hawed about it, and said sometimes the older transducers work ok, and sometimes they cut out after a while.

A new depth transducer may be the cheapest item on my shopping list (I want to fit the UST800 ultrasonic speed sensor) and fortunately I'm already on the hard. I will probably fit a B17 depth transducer, which is retractable.

I want to fit the i70s instrument displays so, as I understand it, the iTC-5 becomes the heart of the system - it converts analogue data from the depth and wind transducers (older wind transducers may not be compatible, either) and pumps the data out as Seatalk-NG (NMEA 2000 with a different connector). I believe the i50 & i60 instruments can fulfil the same role, but I think the i70 prettier.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

A few years ago I upgraded from the older RayMarine system. After looking at numerous systems, I bought Garmin. It's very user friendly and has the best customer service of any marine electronics company I've had to contact. Rather than give a list of reasons why Garmin was selected, I recommend you look at the product. No, I don't own stock in the company or work for them.



On the other end of the spectrum, Lowrance has, by far, the worst customer service of any marine electronics company I have contacted. I would consider hand drawn charts, a lead line, and semaphore flags before buying any Lowrance product.

I would not change brand unless all connected units are being changed. If you let mfds are ray stay with ray

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by KompetentKrew

I'm in a similar position to you, although upgrading from ST50.

Mine is non-removable depth sensor and I believe it to be a P19. Actually, P19 is the Airmar part number, and Raymarine refer to it as the Z091 in the ST50 manual.

Raymarine are not confident that transducers as old as this will work with the iTC-5, I'm afraid. I spoke to one of their support staff on the phone and he hummed and hawed about it, and said sometimes the older transducers work ok, and sometimes they cut out after a while.

A new depth transducer may be the cheapest item on my shopping list (I want to fit the UST800 ultrasonic speed sensor) and fortunately I'm already on the hard. I will probably fit a B17 depth transducer, which is retractable.

I want to fit the i70s instrument displays so, as I understand it, the iTC-5 becomes the heart of the system - it converts analogue data from the depth and wind transducers (older wind transducers may not be compatible, either) and pumps the data out as Seatalk-NG (NMEA 2000 with a different connector). I believe the i50 & i60 instruments can fulfil the same role, but I think the i70 prettier.

If your changing transducers why not go for direct nmea 2000 transducers and therefore no itc-5

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If your changing transducers why not go for direct nmea 2000 transducers and therefore no itc-5

I don't think there are that many options when it comes to NMEA 2000 transducers, are there?

Airmar's UST800 ultrasonic speed sensor is NMEA 2000, but what that means is that it's a 200hz depth sensor which is supplied with its own analogue to NMEA 2000 convertor box.

I believe it's cheaper to buy a UST800 speed transducer, a separate cheap depth sensor and an iTC-5 than to buy an USDT800 speed+depth sensor.

And Raymarine don't make an NMEA 2000 mast-top wind sensor - they make a wireless one, but I always prefer wired over wireless in any fixed installation.

I think B&G / Simrad may make a NMEA 2000 wind transducer, but I'm not sure.

[Ayb]

I pulled out the retractable speed transducer and cleaned it, however my depth sounder is definitely not retractable. I wonder if there's any chance the Raymarine Dst810 fits into the through hull for the speed transducer that I have now, then I could change everything in the water. If we're hauling out to deal with the depth sounder I think I'll try to borrow another ST60 or anything that's meant to read an airmar 200kHz depth sounder to work out whether mine is still functional.