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Old 12-02-2023, 08:03   #1
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MOB PLB W/ AIS

So I have long thought that it would be great if a MOB AIS device, typically about $300, could be combined with an MOB PLB device, also typically about $300. It seems that the marketing gurus have read my mind, and it will be available later this month for $500.
https://www.hodgesmarine.com/acr2933...beacon-pl.html

My first comment is why has this not been discussed all over this forum? I searched and couldn't find it, but maybe that's just my search skills.

The second thought I have is it seems to me that I would not always want the PLB to go off. If I fell overboard in protected waters with little imminent risk to life and limb, I would want the AIS to go off to assist my boat in getting back to me. But I'm not sure that I would always want the global response network to respond.

And it gets worse in remote areas. Consider sailing some place in the Caribbean where hypothetically there is no cell or VHF coverage. It's a nice day close to shore, and somehow you fall over. The AIS helps your spouse get back to you, and 5 minutes later you are back aboard, no harm no foul. I would assume at that point you leave the device activated so that an hour or two or three later when the C-130 flies over, you can hail them on the VHF and tell them "Thanks, but we're good." Turning the device off would probably be worse, because the SAR folks still respond but no longer have a good location.

Regardless of that small concern, this device seems like a game changer for offshore passages.
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Old 12-02-2023, 09:42   #2
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

Harry,
We purchased these last year for our vests. https://www.datrex.com/product/seaan...ais-flare-mob/

They transmit AIS and DSC signals to allow someone on the boat to be alerted of a crewmember overboard. Agree that this is better than waiting for long periods of time for an EPIRB type device to initiate a rescue.
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Old 12-02-2023, 11:21   #3
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

Yup. We borrowed the ACR version for our Down East Circle from a dockmate who had to scrub the Newport Race. Sure was a comfort to have on our PFD. But this new device does both the AIS/DSC and also the EPIRB side in one device (and it doesn't even seem any bigger than one device).

Here on the Chesapeake (and crewed coastal sailing in general) I suspect the AIS/DSC version is the right answer.
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Old 12-02-2023, 13:06   #4
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

I think we looked at that ACR unit you have linked and don't believe it has DSC. Not certain how far a NFC signal will go for a smartphone as an alert.

Generally, we sail as a couple (sometimes a crew member) and wanted our VHF to start screaming if one person was down below and for some reason the other went over. Unlikely, when clipped in, but possible.

Last resort the boat's EPIRB could be triggered if needed.
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Old 12-02-2023, 13:29   #5
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

In the last month, I've received two DSC alert messages that read "AIS Beacon Test." This had me scratching my head for a moment, but I guess such devices are out here in the wild. The last time I hit the "show" button, but it didn't really show me a target, just expanded the range a few miles.
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Old 12-02-2023, 13:51   #6
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

The AIS MOB is going to do a whole lot more than notify your wife.

It will cause the chartplotter of every AIS boat within about 8 miles to start screaming an alarm and flashing a drowning man at the location. And the range is much longer to a CG helicopter 1000 ft in the air.

I saw one go off accidentally in Maine. Within two minutes at least six boats were headed to the location and talking on CH16 - CG, BoatUS, two harbor masters and a bunch of private boats.

I was impressed with the response and it’s change my whole MOB drill. I now tell my wife to not worry about the whole MOB maneuver I taught her - which was really designed for a six man racing crew not a 60 year old single woman. Step 1 in every MOB drill is to have one crewmember keep his eye on the MOB and not do anything else. I tell her to hit the MOB button on the chartplotter first and then get on the radio. I’l be much safer floating in my life jacket waiting for some strong professional in a low sided boat to haul me out of the water rather than her trying to maneuver a 50ft high sided sailboat anywhere near me in a swell.

I consider a PLB to have limited utility for MOB since no nearby boat can see the signal. Far offshore, you wouldn’t have VHF contact with the CG to be told the location. And the best case is it will be 4-8 hours for the CG to get to the MOB by which point they are likely dead.

I do have PLB’s for abandon ship (vs MOB). They are great in a liferaft or if you are wearing a survival suit.
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Old 12-02-2023, 13:55   #7
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

I was discussing this with the Australian distributor of the Ocean Signal rescueME PLB3 last year, was trying to find out when it would be available here in Australia, seems we got to wait for AMSA in Canberra to approve it for use here.

I got my name down though for a couple when they eventually get here.

PLB3: Personal Locator Beacon with AIS, RLS, and NFC Mobile Connectivity

Quote:
24/11/2022 4:49 PM.

Hi John,

Your email has been passed to me. We are the Australian Distributor for the Ocean Signal products.

The PLB3 is certainly an exciting device. People have been asking for a combined PLB & MOB but to date no one has been able to produce one and get it authorised for use.

It was all kept fairly secret about the PLB3 as Ocean Signal were in for an award at the Marine Electronic Trade Show (METS) in Amsterdam last week and they took out the top prize! At this stage the RRP is still to be determined. Ocean Signal should be sending us pricing over the coming weeks. Once we get that we can work out pricing.

While the PLB3 has international approvals we now have to wait till AMSA in Canberra approve it for use here.

It should just be a matter of saying YES but they like to do things a bit differently here. They have known the PLB3 was coming for a while and have all the approvals. Hopefully AMSA will get it done soon but they have indicated that this may take till mid 2023 to get the Australian Standards changed to accept it.

I hope this will be sooner.

Feel free to keep my details and check in from time to time. Once approved we will be releasing it to all our chandlery stores that sell our products also.

Stay safe and have a great weekend.

Ian

Ian Veitch
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18/111 Lewis Road
Wantirna Sth
Vic 3152

Mob 0428 567 678
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Old 13-02-2023, 09:21   #8
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

These have been in the works for a number of years.
I saw them at the Annapolis boat show in October, but they were waiting for FCC approval before they could sell them. As i sail both inshore and offshore I will be adding these to out PFDs.
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Old 13-02-2023, 09:48   #9
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

Just a clarification here too..

The Resqlink is a satellite PLB with an additional AIS transmitter for enhanced local area search. This is similar to the new ACR EPIRB with AIS.

But the Resqlink is not an MOB device like the MOB1 which has VHF-DSC and AIS.

Both can be auto-activated, but the PLB makes a direct SAR call via satellite, and then starts transmitting AIS position data, while the MOB makes a direct DSC distress call to your vessel via VHF and then starts transmitting AIS position data.

There is not, to my knowledge, a device which does PLB and MOB functions in one unit as of yet.

So you would want to make your purchasing decision based on whether you were on a boat with crew or single-handing..

Chartplotters and other units that actively alarm for AIS MOB are far more rate than VHF radios that actively alarm for DSC Distress.

Just my $0.02
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Old 13-02-2023, 11:20   #10
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

I am a little bit confused by several of the responses here, or my understanding of the device.

First, the NFC is nothing more than a convenience for manipulating the device. The last time I programmed an AIS MOB device, you programmed it by flashing lights from the cell phone flash. This just ups that part of the game a little bit.

The item that I linked to bills itself as new, as a groundbreaking change, and something that has not previously been authorized by the FCC. It also includes both satellite and AIS. My interpretation, but perhaps I am way off base, is that this device combines the two previously independent methods of signaling for an MOB. The AIS broadcast, that uses VHF radio to provide information to nearby vessels, and the PLB system that uses EPIRB Network to notify the global response mechanism.

Is there some other interpretation of what this device is? Is AIS anything other than a VHF-based system that is picked up by radios and chartplotters? Is satellite anything other than EPIRB? And if this doesn't combine the features of two different $300 plus devices into a single $500 device, why would anybody ever buy it?

As an aside, when I last programmed a AIS-based MOB device, I seem to recall that by regulation you are required to contact only your own vessel MMSI. I think I ignored that and selected the international option, which notifies everybody, but I don't think that was strictly to regulation.
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Old 13-02-2023, 11:49   #11
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

The thing missing in this one is the VHF DSC Call that you are referring to as having programmed before. This new unit sends out AIS transmission yes, but that is different from a DSC call. AIS is tranmitting out and AIS receivers can choose to pick it up, and can also choose what to do with that information. I would argue that most boats don't have new enough AIS units and MFDs, and/or haven't done the full integration, in order to 1.) display an AIS MOB AS an MOB vs just another boat, and 2.) actually cause an alarm to sound due to MOB from AIS data.

VHF DSC call sends a distress call directly to your vessels radio which as long as it's less than about 15-20 years old it will sound an alarm and display on screen. The optional ALL SHIPS call for the MOB1 will do the same thing to all vessels in range.

Point here is that the MOB1 combines VHF DSC AND AIS. The Resqlink combined PLB (satellite) with AIS. But MOB1 doesn't do satellite, and the Resqlink doesn't do DSC.

This unit IS new and novel in that is has the AIS transmitter in a satellite PLB. But it doesn't fully replace an MOB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
I am a little bit confused by several of the responses here, or my understanding of the device.

First, the NFC is nothing more than a convenience for manipulating the device. The last time I programmed an AIS MOB device, you programmed it by flashing lights from the cell phone flash. This just ups that part of the game a little bit.

The item that I linked to bills itself as new, as a groundbreaking change, and something that has not previously been authorized by the FCC. It also includes both satellite and AIS. My interpretation, but perhaps I am way off base, is that this device combines the two previously independent methods of signaling for an MOB. The AIS broadcast, that uses VHF radio to provide information to nearby vessels, and the PLB system that uses EPIRB Network to notify the global response mechanism.

Is there some other interpretation of what this device is? Is AIS anything other than a VHF-based system that is picked up by radios and chartplotters? Is satellite anything other than EPIRB? And if this doesn't combine the features of two different $300 plus devices into a single $500 device, why would anybody ever buy it?

As an aside, when I last programmed a AIS-based MOB device, I seem to recall that by regulation you are required to contact only your own vessel MMSI. I think I ignored that and selected the international option, which notifies everybody, but I don't think that was strictly to regulation.
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Old 13-02-2023, 20:23   #12
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

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Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems View Post
The thing missing in this one is the VHF DSC Call that you are referring to as having programmed before. d PLB (satellite) with AIS. But MOB1 doesn't do satellite, and the Resqlink doesn't do DSC.
Thanks sea tech. As a result of my question that you answered, I started digging online and learned that same information. A distinction that I was not previously aware of.

Which of course raises another question that I have to dig into. My chart plotter is fairly old, a Furuno NavNet 3D from about 2012. I do not know if it makes any audible alarm on a MOB and that is of course a difficult thing to test. It is well integrated with the AIS.

My VHF radio, which is DSC equipped, is another story. I know that the radio gets position data so the distress button would definitely work. I do not know if it outputs DSC information in any way to the chartplotter, but I am pretty sure it does not. I do know for a fact, as I've asked Furuno about it, I cannot select an AIS Target and pass the MMSI off to the radio for a DSC call. Bottom line, a DSC distress would alarm the VHF, and presumably wake up the crew, but would provide very little assistance in recovery.

Learning the difference between a DSC and an AIS beacon has certainly been useful information.
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Old 13-02-2023, 20:58   #13
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

I currently have both the MOB1 and resqlink, and depending on the situation wear one or the other or neither, but never both. It just gets too bulky. What life vests are recommended for these, as inflatable vests (even offshore vests) trend towards slim and comfortable and don't have room for much safety gear added inside them.

One device with both of them? How is the battery life? Both in terms of shelf life, and how long it lasts after activation. The AIS device in theory doesn't need to last very long, minutes to hours, but not a full 24 hours. But the PLB needs to last 24 hours minimum. That might be the technical reason why we have not seen combined devices yet.

One thing I have always hated about the MOB1 (and any similar device) is the inability to train crew. There is a "test" that you can run, no more than once per year to conserve battery, but little real way to then practice on the chart plotter how to see it and navigate to it. From what I have seen (which is little) tests are handled in the chart plotter different than an activation. I wish I could actually set the damn thing off a few times to learn what it does. Even perform MOB drills with fenders and an AIS device attached to it. That seems the only practical way a crew will know how to find you if the device goes off.

The way my VHF (Standard Horizon GX2200) handles any emergency activation is abysmal. First an alarm, with a message on the screen that says a DSC message was received, and to press a button to acknowledge it. Press a button, and that's it. You are left with no idea of what the message was unless you dig through the logs, which is buried in the menus. This happens both with test messages, and real distress messages I have received while sailing offshore.

Unfortunately, the way the DSC/AIS device is currently implemented from a user interface standpoint they are nearly useless. It's like the DSC/AIS features were implemented in the most minimal way possible to meet regulation, and not a bit more. Maybe they have improved since I bought my stuff, but they would practically need to start over from where they were.
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Old 14-02-2023, 15:22   #14
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

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Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
I currently have both the MOB1 and resqlink, and depending on the situation wear one or the other or neither, but never both. It just gets too bulky. What life vests are recommended for these, as inflatable vests (even offshore vests) trend towards slim and comfortable and don't have room for much safety gear added inside them.

One device with both of them? How is the battery life? Both in terms of shelf life, and how long it lasts after activation. The AIS device in theory doesn't need to last very long, minutes to hours, but not a full 24 hours. But the PLB needs to last 24 hours minimum. That might be the technical reason why we have not seen combined devices yet.

One thing I have always hated about the MOB1 (and any similar device) is the inability to train crew. There is a "test" that you can run, no more than once per year to conserve battery, but little real way to then practice on the chart plotter how to see it and navigate to it. From what I have seen (which is little) tests are handled in the chart plotter different than an activation. I wish I could actually set the damn thing off a few times to learn what it does. Even perform MOB drills with fenders and an AIS device attached to it. That seems the only practical way a crew will know how to find you if the device goes off.

The way my VHF (Standard Horizon GX2200) handles any emergency activation is abysmal. First an alarm, with a message on the screen that says a DSC message was received, and to press a button to acknowledge it. Press a button, and that's it. You are left with no idea of what the message was unless you dig through the logs, which is buried in the menus. This happens both with test messages, and real distress messages I have received while sailing offshore.

Unfortunately, the way the DSC/AIS device is currently implemented from a user interface standpoint they are nearly useless. It's like the DSC/AIS features were implemented in the most minimal way possible to meet regulation, and not a bit more. Maybe they have improved since I bought my stuff, but they would practically need to start over from where they were.

Oh, man, do I agree!


* I can barely squeeze an AIS type beacon into our inflatables.
* The combined battery is 24 hour operation with 5 year shelf life, so it's ample.
* I'd love to actually SEE what happens. Should have tried it in the remote fjords of south Newfoundland this summer -- where the steep high mountains are such that VHF range is measured in yards, not miles.
* My iCOM VHF handles alarms in such an abysmal way that I usually respond in a way that is irresponsible and unseamanlike and won't be discussed on an open forum......(it has to do with a breaker on the panel labeled "VHF")
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Old 14-02-2023, 15:43   #15
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Re: MOB PLB W/ AIS

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Originally Posted by Sea-TechSystems View Post


[snip]



The optional ALL SHIPS call for the MOB1 will do the same thing to all vessels in range.

In the US the MOB1 will not send out an all ships DSC call.



I think the new PLB3 is great, but it would have been much nicer if it also did DSC. It obviously has VHF capability.
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