MMSI registration info change with purchase of boat

[bgallinger]

I have imported my boat from the US into Canada. I have a FCC station license and a MMSI number issued from the US. What changes will I need to make?

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

I have imported my boat from the US into Canada. I have a FCC station license and a MMSI number issued from the US. What changes will I need to make?

What exactly does "imported...into Canada" mean. Is the boat going to become permanently registered as a Canadian-flagged boat?

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by requiem

...My impression is that many radios allow two attempts to enter a number before needing to send it in, solder, or pressing magic key combinations, so you may have one "free" attempt left.

Older DSC radios made to comply with now out-of-date recommendations might have permitted two entries of an MMSI into the radio. But that option was eliminated with more recent ITU recommendations which are mandatory for compliance in most maritime nations.

[bgallinger]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

What exactly does "imported...into Canada" mean. Is the boat going to become permanently registered as a Canadian-flagged boat?

Imported means that I have paid the Import Duty to bring the boat into Canada and having done that, I can "Licence" the boat or "Register" the boat in Canada.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

Older DSC radios made to comply with now out-of-date recommendations might have permitted two entries of an MMSI into the radio. But that option was eliminated with more recent ITU recommendations which are mandatory for compliance in most maritime nations.

Ah yes, you are correct. Just checked some manuals and indeed it's only the once; the "out" is that you can call and request a reset code from the company, (also only once).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I don't know whether there is any firmware limitation in the radio, but the FCC is clear about how to do it in 47 CFR § 80.103:







Using a zero and random 8 digits would not be legal, if for no other reason than the 2nd through 4th digits must be the MID. The reason the FCC does it this way is so they can identify who is operating the group call. They never allow anyone to "make up" an identifier, whether call sign or MMSI. So it might be possible to do it but it is not in compliance with the FCC for US jurisdiction.



Greg

From the FCC website

“Groups of Ships (DSC only)

Group ship station call identities for calling simultaneously more than one ship use the format 01M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9, where the first figure is zero and X is any figure from 0 to 9. The MID represents only the territory or geographical area of the administration assigning the group ship station call identity and does not prevent group calls to fleets containing more than one ship nationality.

No process currently exists to assign non-federal group ship station identities. However, users having an MMSI assigned by FCC license, all of which have a trailing zero, may create a group identity by inserting a zero before the identity and removing the trailing zero (e.g. a user having an MMSI of 366123450 is allowed to use the group identity 036612345).”


Note the the term “may create a group identify “

The ITU which is the controlling body , does not assign or control group mmsi, other the leading digit must be a zero.

after that it’s a free for all. The itu “ recommends” that the MID is inserted after leading zero, but again that’s not mandatory

Looking at the GX1850 Manual , again you can create any group mmsi you want , as long as the leading digit is a zero.

Again while the FCC “ may “ suggest a way to create a group mmsi. FCC does not assign not control group MMSIs. Hence once you utilise the leading zero , after that there is no mandatory group mmsi format

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...I just received a new MMSI from the Irish authorities , it end[s] in 2

Thanks for that information. Now, the $64,000-question: can you locate your ship in the ITU ship station list?

See: https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

Recently I was aboard an Chilean passenger ship with an MMSI that did not end in zero. I could not locate the ship in the ITU ship station list.

My small recreational boat which has an FCC ship station license is listed in the ITU ship station list. The MMSI ends in a zero.

ASIDE: the $64,000-question is an metaphor from an old 1950's American television game show in which the top prize was $64,000, and thus the hardest question was asked at that point in the game. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_$64,000_Question

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by requiem

...checked some [DSC radio] manuals and indeed [the MMSI can be entered] only the once...

That is typical of modern DSC radios. In the very earliest implementation of digital selective calling, a DSC radio was allowed to conform to a limited specification of DSC behaviors.

The specification was known as the RTCM SC-101, for Radio Technical Commission for Maritime Services, Special Committee 101 on Digital Selective Calling.

ASIDE: exactly what behavior was specified in RTCM SC-101 is unknown to me because the RTCM does not publish that document openly; you have to purchase it for $210. I don't
have that much curiosity about an obsolete standard.

For more background on these older radios see

Notice Re DSC Radios with RTCM SC101 - Moderated Discussion Areas

The USCG began endorsement of use of DSC radios in c. 1995--that is 25-years ago.

The RTCM-SC-101 specification was a way for manufacturers to be able to produce a DSC radio with the limited feature set required in the specification as a way to get the protocol started at the small-boat level.

The RTCM says:

NOTE: This 1995 standard is obsolete but is still referenced in the regulations of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission.

The RTCM SC101 standard applies to VHF, MF and HF maritime ship and coast station radiotelephone transceiver equipment, providing minimum distress and safety capability.
The purpose is to provide basic DSC functionality at minimal cost.

In order to arrive at a low-cost design, a number of performance compromises were made. One tunable receiver, capable of tuning to DSC or voice channels, is acceptable.
This means that an SC101 radio will not receive a distress call if the receiver is in use for another call

Ten years ago in 2010, in the USA the FCC announced that all new DSC radios would have to conform to the more stringent behaviors required in the ITU recommendation ITU-R Rec. M.493-11. A one-year-period for compliance was allowed. Thus any DSC radio available in the USA after 2011 would need to comply with the more stringent recommendation.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

Imported means that I have paid the Import Duty to bring the boat into Canada and having done that, I can "Licence" the boat or "Register" the boat in Canada.

If a boat is registered as a Canadian flagged boat, then I would infer that the boat will need an MMSI issued by the Canadian MMIS-issuing authority. (I don't know which arm of the Canadian government performs that function, but I am sure you can find that information on-line.)

The first three digits of a nine-digit MMSI identifying number encode the national authority that has issued the MMSI (and they are referred to as the "MID").

Having a Canadian-flagged boat with an MMSI that indicated it was issued by the USA would not be appropriate.

For some advice on this from an authority, see this FAQ on the ITU website:

https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-R/terrest...tegorizedby=25

When a vessel changes name, does the MMSI number change?

​If the vessel changes its flag, yes the MMSI number must be changed, because the MID is different for each administration (flag state/country). Within each country it is the prerogative of the licensing administration to decide on the issuing of an MMSI.

Nota Bene: The second sentence above seems to remove all doubt about the incorrect notion that the FCC had somehow made "a mistake" in their method of issuing MMSI registrations and allowing private agencies to issue MMSI registrations in certain number blocks, that is, in numbers that did not end in a zero.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

Thanks for that information. Now, the $64,000-question: can you locate your ship in the ITU ship station list?

See: https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

Recently I was aboard an Chilean passenger ship with an MMSI that did not end in zero. I could not locate the ship in the ITU ship station list.

My small recreational boat which has an FCC ship station license is listed in the ITU ship station list. The MMSI ends in a zero.

ASIDE: the $64,000-question is an metaphor from an old 1950's American television game show in which the top prize was $64,000, and thus the hardest question was asked at that point in the game. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_$64,000_Question

Lots and lots of non zero mmsi on the itu database

I’m not sure where the idea came about that you need a zero ending in mmsi to be on the itu.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Lots and lots of non zero mmsi on the itu database .

Your oblique reply did not answer my question about your particular MMSI (that ends in "2") and if it can be found in the ITU ship station list.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m not sure where the idea came about that you need a zero ending in mmsi to be on the itu.

That idea came about from the practices of the FCC.

Also, many larger ships that had radio call routing devices used in other systems already had ship identities that were less than six numbers long. So those ships were give an MMSI with a three-digit MID prefix, a five-digit identifier that matches their earlier ship identity, and a trailing zero. Or at least that is what I have inferred from some reading on the topic.

As an example of a large ship that ends in zero, try QUEEN MARY 2.

Her MMSI is 235762000--ending in triple zero.

Or QUEEN ELIZABETH, MMSI = 232089000, another triple zero.

It cannot be entirely coincidental that an MMSI ending in zero has some sort of method of being associated with larger ships, and those ships likely already had some other radio call routing identification number from a legacy system.

Here is another common ship name: VENTUS (wind in Latin)
If you search the ITU Ship Station List you find 13 Ships named VENTUS with MMSI assignments. Of those 13 MMSI number, 11 end in a zero. This cannot be completely coincidental. And only ONE of the administrations issuing those end-in-zero MMSI numbers was the USA.

[requiem]

Yep, not interested in shelling out that much for a glance at an old standard either.

Originally Posted by continuouswave

Also, many larger ships that had radio call routing devices used in other systems already had ship identities that were less than six numbers long. So those ships were give an MMSI with a three-digit MID prefix, a five-digit identifier that matches their earlier ship identity, and a trailing zero. Or at least that is what I have inferred from some reading on the topic.

Not sure about the five-digit identifiers, but there's clear indication of three-digit ones....

ITU-R M.585-7 makes the consideration that "the current generation of mobile-satellite systems participating in the GMDSS have signalling and routing characteristics requiring ships using these networks to have an MMSI ending with three zeroes" and also mentions "The maximum number of digits that could be transmitted over the national networks of many countries for the purpose of determining ship station identity was six. The digits carried on the network to represent the ship station identity are referred to as the «ship station number» in this text and in the relevant ITU-R Recommendations."

Similarly the regs themselves mention in 19.114 that administrations should "take particular care in assigning ship station identities with six significant digits (i.e. having three-trailing-zero identities), which should be assigned only to ship stations which can reasonably be expected to require such an identity for automatic access on a worldwide basis to public switched networks, in particular for mobile-satellite systems accepted for use in the GMDSS on or before 1 February 2002, as long as those systems maintain the MMSI as part of their numbering scheme."

FCC's method of "self-assignment" by way of shifting digits complies with the recommendation in M.585-7, but doesn't appear to be mandated by it. FCC issuing only "ends-in-zero" identities wouldn't appear to be making the most efficient use of the space, but it does provide the benefit of that self-assignment without fear of collision. Having BoatUS, USPS, etc. manage the remaining identities would then take care of the efficiency requirement. (I'm now wondering if any BoatUS MMSIs end in zero, but I'm guessing not.)

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by requiem

...FCC issuing only "ends-in-zero" identities wouldn't appear to be making the most efficient use of the space, but it does provide the benefit of that self-assignment without fear of collision.

I am sure you mean a collision of having two agencies issue the same number to twodifferent boats, not in two boats colliding. (Wink-wink)

As for efficiency, the FCC system is probably quite efficient in terms of use of available numbers, on the basis that their split gives 10-percent of the numbers to mandatory-equipped boats and 90-percent to voluntary-equipped boats. This means that the FCC won't be inefficient as long as there are about nine-times more voluntary-equipped boats than there are mandatory-equipped boats. I think that 9:1 ratio is probably a good approximation to the actual ratio of the number of boats in each category. If anything, the number of voluntary-equipped boats is probably rising as more recreational boaters adopt DSC radios.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

Thanks for that information. Now, the $64,000-question: can you locate your ship in the ITU ship station list?

See: https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

hmmm ... I seem to appear twice, with two different MMSIs! There is a second MMSI registered under the Previous owner's name ... I guess I should mention that next time I renew.

The perils of buying a charity donation boat ... its previous life is a total mystery to me ... apparently she had an MMSI, you might have hoped they'd have told me that when I phoned up and asked about one, before issuing a new one.

[CarinaPDX]

There was a bit more to the SC-101 standard. During the evolution of the DSC Class D standard (for recreational, voluntary boats) there was a disagreement between the US FCC and others, especially the EU. The SC-101 was an American alternative to Class D. It seems others felt that Class D should include the ability of Class D radios to repeat Mayday DSC calls, which the FCC disagreed with. There were probably other issues as well. The first Class D radios in Europe created problems because they did indeed repeat emergency DSC calls and flooded the system. Hence the Class D spec was changed, and the FCC came aboard and obsoleted the SC-101 spec. N.B.: This is from memory, which is always suspect, so corrections are welcome.

Greg