MMSI registration info change with purchase of boat

[GreenWave]

So I am purchasing a sailboat and trying to work with current owner on the transfer. He has an FCC license/MMSI registration since he travelled to forteign ports. I will want same. The process is incredibly frustrating and not very clear (thanks US Gov).


Current owner submitted a transfer application with FCC (form 603), and I registered for and have a FRN. However, the linkage has not shown up under my FRN yet, and as I understand there are several hops to take. The next is me to acknowledge the request but cannot do that since it isn't associated with me.


So question- is there something else that I need to do first or in parallel to complete the transfer process? Note: I have not had any FRN or FCC radio license previously. Do I need to apply for that separately? Really hoping for step-by-step from someone who has actually transferred or received an FCC managed MMSI.

[serpa4]

Older thead, but I'm buying a new to me boat with VHF and AIS (trans and receive). I "assume" it has an MMSI, but have not asked as of tonight.
However, if I leave the US to the Bahamas, does it have to be the "international" Ship station MMSI even if I'm recreational?
If so, can I change a US MMSI to a Ship station MMSI?


Thank all.














From my reading...


U.S. Non-Federal User
In order to obtain an MMSI, mariners required by regulation to carry a marine radio and those who travel outside the U.S. or Canada to foreign ports must apply to the Federal Communications Commission for a ship station license or an amendment to a ship station license. State and local governments can generally obtain an FCC ship station license at no charge.

Mariners not required to carry a marine radio (e.g. recreational boaters) and who remain in U.S. waters can obtain an MMSI through approved organizations such as BOAT US 1-800-563-1536, U.S. Power Squadron, and Shine Micro (primarily for AIS).

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by serpa4

Older thead, but I'm buying a new to me boat with VHF and AIS (trans and receive). I "assume" it has an MMSI, but have not asked as of tonight. However, if I leave the US to the Bahamas, does it have to be the "international" Ship station MMSI even if I'm recreational?
If so, can I change a US MMSI to a Ship station MMSI?

Don't assume the boat has an MMSI but easy to pull the menu up and check. I did just that during a sea trail on a boat I was planning to purchase and confirmed it did not have an MMSI, even though it had traveled between California and Oregon.

You might find this thread helpful on the same subject about an international MMSI.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/florida...i-numbers.html

[Dogscout]

So just because the radio has an MMSI programed in, does not mean it is for international waters. I imagine you might have a hard time off the coast of Croatia with a MMSI issued by BoatUS vs one issued by USCG. The authorities in the MED want to see your ICC or license/certification, your VHF license and they are known to track you by AIS. I'm sure that there is a likely fine for not having a internationally recognized one.

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by serpa4

...I'm buying a new to me boat...if I leave the US to the Bahamas, does [the boat MMSI] have to be the "international" Ship station MMSI?

To comply with the rules in the USA, if your USA boat makes international voyages, your USA boat needs a SHIP STATION LICENSE issued by the FCC. Since when applying for an FCC-issued SHIP STATION LICENSE you can also get an MMSI for no added cost, you will get an MMSI issued by the FCC.

You will also need to have an operator permit or a license. The lowest tier, least difficult to obtain authorization is a RESTRICTED OPERATOR PERMIT. It permits you to operate the VHF Marine Band radio on your own boat.

The only numerical difference between an MMSI issued by the FCC and an MMSI issued by a private agency like BoatUS is in the number itself. The FCC MMSI will end in a zero. The non-FCC MMSI will end in 1 thru 9. The reason for ending-in-zero is related to interoperability with other legacy ship polling non-DSC radio systems.

The only administrative difference is the MMSI issued by the FCC should appear in the database of ship stations maintained by the ITU. However, there is first-hand evidence that not every MMSI issued by the FCC has been incorporated into the ITU database.

A quick way to check is to look-up your own ship station MMSI on the ITU database. You can do this on-line at

https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

I'm sure that there is a likely fine for not having a internationally recognized [MMSI].

Please point to some ITU document that supports you assertion of the existence of a "internationally recognized" MMSI compared to non-internationally recognized one.

As far as I can tell, the applicable document is

Recommendation ITU-R M.585-8
(10/2019)
Assignment and use of identities in the
maritime mobile service

https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...0-I!!PDF-E.pdf

And ALL SHIP STATIONS are supposed to use an MMSI assigned according the ANNEX 1.

In Annex 1 the recommendation is:

Ships participating in the maritime radio services mentioned in recommends 1 should be assigned a nine digit unique ship station identity in the format

M1/I2/D3/X4/X5/X6/X7/X8/X9

where in the first three digits represent the maritime identification digits (MID) and X is any figure from 0 to 9. The MID denotes the administration having jurisdiction over the ship station so identified.

My inference regarding the FCC issuing MMSI that end in zero and the private agencies issuing MMSI that ends 1-9 is that it was just a simple way to allot all the possible numbers and to reserve the ends-in-zero for the FCC because those numbers might be needed to accommodate legacy ship identities for other systems.

But if you are in any country, an MMSI that does not end in zero will still work for operating your vessel with DSC and AIS.

However, being a USA boat and having an MMSI that does not end in zero might be a way for authorities in another country to infer you do not have an FCC ship station license.

[gonesail]

if it is an FCC MMSI number then the original owner must cancel his ship station license before you can use the number.

[serpa4]

If the boat has an MMSI from the previous number, why cant I get my own (apply for it) after I bought the boat?
1) If I buy a new upgraded AIS, I don't think there is an issue right of getting an MMSI for my new to me boat.
2) Why when I go to order a AIS, Defender marine "MUST" encode my MMSI and WILL NOT sell it without me sending them the MMSI 1st.


I'd like to get a new AIS with WiFi, so I guess there is no reason not to get my own MMSI or is it tied to the Hull identification number and thus the boat cannot have 2 MMSI? Or is it that the AIS itself cannot have a MMSI changed?


I assume if the MMSI cannot ever be change in an AIS, then there is no resale value in one?

[CarinaPDX]

The MMSI can be changed, but in the U.S. not by owners. It will have to go back to a service center to have it changed.

Greg

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

So just because the radio has an MMSI programed in, does not mean it is for international waters. I imagine you might have a hard time off the coast of Croatia with a MMSI issued by BoatUS vs one issued by USCG. The authorities in the MED want to see your ICC or license/certification, your VHF license and they are known to track you by AIS. I'm sure that there is a likely fine for not having a internationally recognized one.

None of this is really true. Occasionally the vhf operators license is checked in the Med. But only if they think you are a bold boy with other documents. I’ve never seen a check of the ships license in 30 years in the Med. ( as I’ve said , if the main paperwork is wrong , you can get the equivalent of an audit , but that’s different )

Authorities do not use AIS to “ track” yachts except in specific rescue or security risk situations , they have better things to do with their time


In the Med , you get asked for boat ownership papers and insurance. That’s it

The main reason you can’t use a BoatUS MMSI internationally , is that mmsi is not registered in the ITU database , rescue agencies will still respond of course to an unidentified mmsi , even if they can’t access the relevant vessel data.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by serpa4

If the boat has an MMSI from the previous number, why cant I get my own (apply for it) after I bought the boat?
1) If I buy a new upgraded AIS, I don't think there is an issue right of getting an MMSI for my new to me boat.
2) Why when I go to order a AIS, Defender marine "MUST" encode my MMSI and WILL NOT sell it without me sending them the MMSI 1st.


I'd like to get a new AIS with WiFi, so I guess there is no reason not to get my own MMSI or is it tied to the Hull identification number and thus the boat cannot have 2 MMSI? Or is it that the AIS itself cannot have a MMSI changed?


I assume if the MMSI cannot ever be change in an AIS, then there is no resale value in one?

The AIS can be changed with the appropriate software. Which is available if you know where to look

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by serpa4

...when I go to order a AIS, Defender marine "MUST" encode my MMSI and WILL NOT sell it without me sending them the MMSI...

There are federal regulations in the USA that require an ASI transmitter to be pre-configured by the vendor with certain information, including the MMSI and the location of the position sensor on the boat, before the device can be delivered to the customer. This requirement is specific to the USA.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

There are federal regulations in the USA that require an ASI transmitter to be pre-configured by the vendor with certain information, including the MMSI and the location of the position sensor on the boat, before the device can be delivered to the customer. This requirement is specific to the USA.

Yes it’s was fears of Terrorist interfering that drove the US to this decision

[continuouswave]

Originally Posted by serpa4

...is [a ship's MMSI] tied to the Hull identification number...

The notion of the MMSI being "tied" to a particular SHIP is only in the administrative records of the authority that issued the MMSI.

Devices that permit MMSI entry to them for identification can later be changed to allow a different MMSI to be entered, although this usually in the USA means the manufacturer must provide "advice" on how to accomplish this.

Some basic background on an MMSI:

MMSI means Maritime Mobile Service Identity. "Maritime Mobile Service" means a MOBILE RADIO service for SHIPS.

The best analogy is a telephone number for a cellular telephone.

An ASI (or RADIO) device does NOT have its own unique identity embedded into the device by the manufacturer. (This is unlike cellular telephones which do have unique IMEI identification numbers.) An ASI or RADIO is assigned a identifying MMSI so that other devices can make calls to it or identify the SHIP based on its MMSI.

An MMSI is associated with a SHIP, not with a particular device.

When an MMSI is issued to a SHIP, the licensing authority associates certain data about the ship to the MMSI. For example, an MMSI will be associated with

--the SHIP name
--the SHIP radio station license CALLSIGN
--the SHIP general classification
--the SHIP primary individual classification
--the SHIP primary nature of service
--the SHIP owner
--the SHIP EPIRB identifier
--the SHIP (hull) identification number

Generally for a recreational boat the federal Hull Identification Number (HIN) is not used as an associated identifier, but a "documented vessel" with a USCG issued six-digit or seven-digit identification number may have that number associated with the MMSI.

For more details please read my article at

MMSI Lookup
http://continuouswave.com/forum/view...hp?f=13&t=3948

To get a better understanding of the data associated with an MMSI, use the ITU SHIP LIST database.

https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list

You can enter a query using a ship name. For example, use QUEEN MARY 2

The ITU search does not reveal details about the owner, but I believe that more information is available to proper authorities for the purpose of contacting the owner to assist in rescue or aid to the vessel.

[Knotical]

Hi all, thanks for resurrecting this thread as I am still confused about all this, and there are some helpful replies lately.

My boat only has a VHF radio with MMSI number (no AIS or HF radio), when we bought her the PO gave me login info on USPS website for the MMSI and just had me change the personal info, if the CG looks up my MMSI they will find my contact info on USPS website. Now, I don't know if this is right or not, my big question is what happens when I buy a AIS or another VHF, do I program the same MMSI even though it wasn't me who obtained it initially and the transfer was just changing login info?

Feedback appreciated