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View Poll Results: Your HF usage in the past year
I sail offshore and use HF/SSB as my primary means of over-the-horizon, two-way communications 18 23.38%
I sail offshore and use satellite as my primary means but find two-way HF/SSB useful also 17 22.08%
I sail offshore and use satellite as my only means of two-way over-the-horizon comms 16 20.78%
I am a coastal cruiser and find two-way HF/SSB useful 10 12.99%
I use RECEIVE ONLY HF/SSB for weather, time, or news and don't have or don't use transmit capability 11 14.29%
VHF, cellular, and EPIRB are all I need 15 19.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18-01-2022, 06:15   #46
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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Originally Posted by Fidsplice View Post
I’m puzzled that the discussion is over two different paradigms. Radio is broadcast. Anyone can hear. Sat is specific point to point. HF and local VHF do not require infrastructure. (VHF relay does). Sat is an amazing leap forward but if there is a world crisis satellites and infrastructure are prime targets, either physically destroying or programmatically disabling.
That’s why military all over the world are returning to HF (and also celestial navigation).

HF is somewhat like life jackets, and fire extinguishers, and flares. If you need ‘em they’re there and no one can take them from you.
Maybe we’ll be lucky and there’ll be no international crisis. But when all else fails, HF will allow you to talk to someone/anyone else - somewhere - without depending on any other infrastructure.
In the big Venn diagram they are quite different but share significant overlap.

In my view Satellite is best, while it works, and costs a pretty penny, but HF is free, and will always be there. You can’t really compare them.
I think for most people international crisis (war) leading to large scale destruction of satellite networks is not something most cruisers worry about. Realistically if that happens silo keys are likely already turning and human civilization is going backwards 5,000 years in some bright flashes.

I worry about a lot when cruising but that isn't one of them.
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Old 18-01-2022, 07:00   #47
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

[QUOTE=Sailing Hanse37;3555213]If you want that speed on HF you will need pactor4. The price of this modem + HF rig + antenna setup + proper grounding are exorbitant in price… iridium GO is a very affordable and very reliable much much cheaper alternative[/QUOTE


Not sure how this compares with a satellite phone but a Pactor III is around $1200 and a IV is around $2000. Am Icom 718 is $550. A couple of insulators installed on a back-stay is around $600. A ground system can be as cheap as $50 (grounding to a thru-hull fitting). So minimally around $2500. Personally I do not think a Pactor is necessary with all the nets giving weather. In that case a brand new system without Pactor would be around $1300.
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Old 19-01-2022, 18:07   #48
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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3 year payback even considering the SailMail subscription? The numbers don't look like that for my use case
This may be another induction v. gas discussion. *grin*

When I did the comparison I used the following information: a new 802, 140, Pactor III modem, alternate backstay antenna, KISS-SSB counterpoise, grounding to thru-hull (10-24 machine screw for the copper. I did include Sailmail. Prices came from Dockside Radio in Punta Gorda FL. For comparison I used a 9555, car kit, upgraded ("real") coax, and a data package based on the minutes one can get from the rolling time budget of Sailmail with whatever voice minutes came along for the ride. Prices from Global Marine Net in Knoxville TN. Both estimates included an allowance for bits and bobs for mechanical installation. Not a lot, and more for HF/SSB than for satellite. I did NOT include installation as there are too many variables. Both are amenable to DIY installation by a knowledgeable person with access to someone who bends sufficiently well to fit into small spaces and can then get out.

The break even point was right around three years.

If you've found a way to transfer data from GO! to a real computer I'd be grateful for insight.

I have a thing about Bluetooth. I'm still getting used to even the concept of Bluetooth for mission critical applications. Printers, ear buds - sure. Mice and keyboards or Pactor modems worry me. Pairing does drop. I still like wired connections (and lots of ferrite beads) for mission critical. I'm conservative.

I feel strongly that synoptic charts are much better weather information than gribs, and you can't get synoptics over GO! without burning through prodigious amounts of data.

The GO! is rated IP65 but I don't know how. Under the spray hood it is going to get wet, probably very wet. I take issue with your statement that one doesn't need the external antenna. You'll get much better low angle coverage and more even path loss from horizon to horizon (antenna gain drops at higher angles where distance is less (remember inverse r-squared)). Performance is noticeably better with the external antenna than out on deck, much less below. Below the reliability and availability will be better. Definitely upgrade the coax. A little waveguide would be nice. *grin*

To digress, my installation approach for electronics is to hook everything together and get it working. Often this happens in my lab but sometimes onboard or on a dock. Then I do mechanical installation and fish cables one at a time and test between. This belt and suspenders approach means that if/when something stops working I know it is whatever I last touched. This saves a lot of time. This is why I can say with assurance that the external antenna makes a noticeable difference.

It is my opinion, which I have expressed to the Winlink Development Team (WDT) that their reaction to curmudgeons in the amateur community to rigorously define third party traffic was overboard. That makes Winlink irrelevant except for coastal cruising the country in which one is licensed (assuming third party traffic is allowed there at all). It's sad. I do use it for Saildocs (although I didn't account for that in the trade-off that started this dissertation).

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Old 04-02-2022, 06:13   #49
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
...the Winlink Development Team (WDT) that their reaction to curmudgeons in the amateur community to rigorously define third party traffic was overboard. That makes Winlink irrelevant...

Exactly our recent experience, unfortunately. VARA HF over Winlink is a hands-down winner over Pactor (even P4, given the price), but largely wasted because of the third party traffic rules. I pinged the SailMail folks about VARA, but never received a reply; not even a "go pound sand" which would have been fine. <shrug>

We just picked up a used I Go and a few SIM cards to use for our PredictWind data any time we're off shore for longer than four days.



But to answer the poll, we use the HF multiple times daily:
Chris Parker weather twice a day
Doo Dah net
SSCA net twice a day for position reporting and general news
Winlink for email (we are both General class licensed hams)


Also, it's not just the "old folks" that are using HF out there. We have several 30-something friends who also use their rigs daily.


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Old 07-02-2022, 11:05   #50
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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For long distance, I scribble a note and tie it to my pet homing pigeon...
Funny…we roasted a pigeon that landed on our boat the other day. Had something tied to his leg…could it be?…
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Old 21-11-2022, 07:34   #51
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

I think this has been an interesting poll. 69% -- 29 out of 42 respondents who sail offshore -- either use HF as their primary means of communication beyond the horizon or find it to be a useful adjunct to satellite. That is far more than what I would have expected based on the way the discussions usually go.


There were also a substantial number of coastal cruisers who said they found HF useful.


Maybe HF isn't quite dead yet.
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Old 21-11-2022, 07:58   #52
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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I think this has been an interesting poll. 69% -- 29 out of 42 respondents who sail offshore -- either use HF as their primary means of communication beyond the horizon or find it to be a useful adjunct to satellite. That is far more than what I would have expected based on the way the discussions usually go.


There were also a substantial number of coastal cruisers who said they found HF useful.


Maybe HF isn't quite dead yet.
SSB definitely not dead. It is a great way to keep in touch with the cruising community at large and talk to people en’ mass. The HF nets have saved me from some not good situations. I have always purchased used Ham rigs fairly inexpensively. Or used icom SSB’s. Install my self, actually pretty easy. A day project at most. Satalite is great but both is much better. I also use Garman “IN REACH. For short texts and back up EPIRB.
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Old 21-11-2022, 08:11   #53
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

Interesting... I've wondered about installing an SSB. Doesn't seem worth the cost and bother to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

Personally, I'd like to see the results to a poll that asks: IF you sail offshore, do you have an HF (SSB) radio?

Of course, you'd have to define "offshore."
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Old 21-11-2022, 08:35   #54
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
I think this has been an interesting poll. 69% -- 29 out of 42 respondents who sail offshore -- either use HF as their primary means of communication beyond the horizon or find it to be a useful adjunct to satellite. That is far more than what I would have expected based on the way the discussions usually go.
There were also a substantial number of coastal cruisers who said they found HF useful.
Maybe HF isn't quite dead yet.
Thanks for summing it up like you did.


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Originally Posted by merrydolphin View Post
SSB definitely not dead. It is a great way to keep in touch with the cruising community at large and talk to people en’ mass. The HF nets have saved me from some not good situations. I have always purchased used Ham rigs fairly inexpensively. Or used icom SSB’s. Install my self, actually pretty easy. A day project at most. Satalite is great but both is much better. I also use Garman “IN REACH. For short texts and back up EPIRB.
For me it breaks the monotony of the day to day bordom between moments of terror(lol). For me it is fun making contacts and how excited the land based people are that they made a contact with a person that is on a sailboat surrounded by water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Interesting... I've wondered about installing an SSB. Doesn't seem worth the cost and bother to me, but maybe I'm wrong.
Personally, I'd like to see the results to a poll that asks: IF you sail offshore, do you have an HF (SSB) radio?
Of course, you'd have to define "offshore."
See Jammers post...69% do. If you go Ham, you can buy an Icom-718 for $400 used or $600 new, a used automatic tuner for $250 and backstay insulators for $200. It opens up a whole new world as communication, hobby and as a weather aid. I know others on CF use iridium sat phone but I will say here that it seems to me they generally do not like talking socially anyways. I'm sure I will get flak for that.
I have been a Ham for almost 40 years. Messing with boats is what got me into the hoppy. I have n Yeasu FT-990 on the ranch and will probably fit an icom-718 on Yeasu FT-891 after I do the standing rigging.
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Old 21-11-2022, 09:39   #55
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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See Jammers post...69% do.
The poll question is: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

IOW, it presupposes respondents already have an HF radio. My question is more fundamental. How many offshore cruisers actually have an HF system? I bet the number is small, and declining. But as always, I could be wrong.
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Old 21-11-2022, 10:38   #56
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

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Interesting... I've wondered about installing an SSB. Doesn't seem worth the cost and bother to me, but maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think SSB is widely used in the Great Lakes. Propagation over freshwater isn't as good as it is over the ocean, although the distances are shorter so it shouldn't matter much. I would not expect a backstay antenna and a ground plate to work especially well. I would be inclined to switch to Dyneema lifelines, and have half-wave HF antennas through the center of the Dyneema line. With a few tricks it should be possible to get good performance on the usual 40 meter ham frequencies (7.xxx Mhz) and 8.xxx MHz marine frequencies with no or minimal dependence on a tuner.

I would think that it would be really hard to get good performance on the 80 meter ham and 4.xx Mhz marine frequencies in freshwater, but that isn't necessary except at the bottom of the sunspot cycle, which we won't see again for another five years or more.

Under the sunspot conditions prevailing now, it should be possible to get from one end of Lake Superior to the other on 7.xx/8.xx MHz any time of the day.


I think the number of people who own sailboats on Lake Superior, and who know this, is probably in the single digits.


https://www.glcclub.com/great-lakes-marine-mobile-net - amateur radio net mentioned, but older web page, and the page it links to is gone. Some more recent mention here - https://www.sailblogs.com/member/glmmnet/. Apparently the net operates weekend mornings at 8:30 EST on 7.268 MHz LSB. Also an old mention on CF - https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ssb-44824.html. The older CF post mentions 08:00 EST and 21:00 EST start times on 3.930 Mhz with the net moving to 7.263 Mhz LSB. This appears to be a Chicago-based group.
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Old 21-11-2022, 18:50   #57
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

I use mine quit a bit underway. Morning nets, Winlink for weather and email. Always have. IC 718, AH2, 20M long wire antenna.
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Old 21-11-2022, 19:08   #58
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

I have HF SSB. and I haver never used it. Never will, most likely.

I have no interest in "party line" communications, or group chats no matter what the technology used to implement it.

One of the things I enjoy most about long passages is the QUIET from the incessant chatter of the world. I am never in a hurry to get "reconnected".
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Old 21-11-2022, 20:14   #59
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

Free (or near free) email at sea? Free Wx data downloads? Backup emergency comm device in case SatPhone fails? What's not to like? I just installed a Starlink dish today, but I am still keeping my HF radio.

WRT Mike's question, for the purposes of asking "who sails offshore and has an HF radio" I think the definition of "offshore" ought to mean regularly making passages of 3 or more days duration out of range of land based comms (ie. cellular). Of course now you have to define "regularly" - as in more than twice a month over the course of a year would be my way of dividing the fleet.
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Old 21-11-2022, 22:16   #60
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Re: It's 2022. What have you used your HF (SSB) for lately?

Just finished my +/-2,000 nm winter cruise and used mine a number of times for met bureau weather forcasts in places where I had no internet coverage. In Australia the met bureau still broadcasts high seas and coastal 3 day warnings and forcasts for the entire continent and surrounding ocean areas on SSB HF frequencies in a number of bands every four hours.
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