Is the radar an obsolete equipment?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

If anyone really wants to know why radar is important even in narrow river waterways, then just spend twenty minutes watching this episode of “Forensic Files” about the most deadly train derailment in US history. Cutting to the chase, but not being a spoiler, it involves a boat with radar installed and a skipper who didn’t know how to use it, and who didn’t think knowing how to use radar was an important skill to learn. 47 people died.

Does this sound familiar?

I rest my case..

[Squanderbucks]

As someone who has traveled between Florida and the Bahamas for 40 years with varying degrees of technology. Think of every piece of eguipment provides one more source of information or data to help you make choices. If the question is CAN you go without radar - most definitely - most of the time.
But after years of crossing without I can definitely say that if you do night navigation or long distance legs of trips where weather can change or there are heavy shipping lanes then radar is definitely not unnecessary
Many vessels do not transmit AIS. I can think of several night crossings that I was sure glad to have the Radar. The new ones - even the little radomes do a good job of integrating AIS and Doppler to make it easier(read safer) to recognize target priority. Coming or going.
Judging traffic at night visually is a real bear. Very hard to tell headings of traffic and even distance. Radar is a godsend at those times.
If you only do short hops and limit yourself to daylight travel the radar can be omitted but otherwise if you have an old power hungry radar that works I would still recommend upgrading to the newest technology.
Otherwise a good chart plotter and depth sounder will do the trick.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

Hello everyone,

My child dream is half way in - did purchase a Sefarer 34 last summer, put some work to restore it, and hopefully next summer it will be on the water. One question I can not firmly decide is if it's worth to keep the radar (JRC 1800) or to remove it. Aesthetically the boat will be better without, and I am not sure what advantage it adds.

A GPS knows every rock, the AIS will know every ship, except small ones, and as a friend put it, I have better chance of winning the lottery than hitting a small vessel. So what the radar is for? And it's power hungry.

Opinions welcome!
Thanks, George

JRC 1800, I would keep it. the AIS will know every ship! wrong! Many do not emit the AIS signal for security reasons. Further more, you never know when you will need it. Also it depends on your sailing grounds. Give yourself some time before removing it. We used ours on a rescue vessel for over twenty years and it became second nature to use and we always had it on even during fair weather and many time we were happy to have it on...

[GrowleyMonster]

If you had everything on the boat you OUGHT to have, there would be no room for you. You OUGHT to have a radar, and a second radar. Ideally one well up on the mast, one down low on an arch or mizzen mast or etc. Well, we don't usually have everything we ought to have, due to lack of space or finances, and so we have to prioritize. The case for radar has been well made and I will endeavor not to repeat much of it. But I would say if you have a couple $k burning a hole in your pocket, a radar is a pretty sensible purchase and needs to be fairly high priority IMHO. Not only for collision/allision avoidance but also for pilotage purposes. A couple of radar ranges gives you a very good position and point of reference. And let's not forget weather warning. The wx broadcasts will often have you reefing many hours early or else late, especially at night. okay yeah, I don't currently have a radar on either boat and GF boat doesn't have one either. We don't have a lot of things we ought to have. But of those things, Radar is near the top of the priority scale.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I rest my case..

Phil,

Did you watch the video? Thick fog, he didn't learn how to use radar, then when he absolutely needed it when nothing else would do the job, the skipper didn't know how to use it, etc. 47 people dead, over 130 injured.

Ken

[Mithril Bham]

We get fog so thick up here that you can't see the bow. Radar has saved me more than once. What scares me most are young drunk teenagers running daddy's boat at 30 knots. You can definitely hit small boats. The big ones are usually responsible, going slowly and using proper blasts.

[Dooglas]

Fog is common in my home waters, as are many small fishing boats. I would not own a boat without radar.

[boatman61]

Keno.. theres fog in the English Channel, theres fog on the French coast, NW Spain and down the Portuguese coast and I have managed just fine as I am.
What you do suits you and your style of boat handling.. what I do suits mine.. lets leave it at that.
I have nothing against those who choose to use it just as I have nothing against those who choose not to singlehand across oceans.
People also tell me its not safe to do what I do wothout shorebased weather 'gurus' advosing me across the Atlantic.
All the film proves is its just another tool that guarantees nothing other than it gives idiots the conviction they are invunerable.
I am convinced all car drivers should be compelled to ride m'bikes for 2yrs before they are allowed to drive a car.. But hey.. might as well post that lettter to Santa.
Good job theres plenty pf other delivery skippers to choose from..

[moseriw]

stupidity is lacking of judgement (Kant)

So it depends:

Nobody will be out on fog if he can avoid it.
Nobody will need a radar if someone is on watch - always - and not sleeping!
Nobody with a small daysailer will need a radar.
-----------------
Hmm - nobody needs lights on his car while driving in sunshine
to be continued.

[peter loveridge]

I always hesitate to put anything on here as there are always posters who know better, but I have sailed here in Nova Scotia for well over 40 years, wrote the definitive cruising guide to the place , and travelled to the Bahamas and back.

Some time next week, in my home waters, more than 2000 fishing boats, most of them 50 feet long will be loose on the water. They all have radar, many have two, and NONE will be putting out on AIS. They may see you , but may well not if they are setting traps. In any case, they will be the stand on vessel. If you sail though this fleet without radar it is quite likely you will hit something. The sailing directions give more than 20 days of fog for every month of summer, and if you don't mind staying in port for two weeks waiting for it to clear, and you only sail in daylight, yes, you can do with out it, and I certainly did in the past. It wasn't easy and its very easy to come to grief.
For me, radar is the most useful single electronic instrument on the boat, and if you can afford one ( cheaper than many plotters) it is foolhardy in a place like this not to have one. My little Furuno only uses 2.2 A on transmit.
And, yes, a 30 knot fog breeze and 50 feet visibility is not the best time to learn to use it.

[SV THIRD DAY]

FakeBook and online chat rooms have replaced the need for Radar and for that matter ever boats. Why mess with it for real when you can do it all online.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Phil,

Did you watch the video? Thick fog, he didn't learn how to use radar, then when he absolutely needed it when nothing else would do the job, the skipper didn't know how to use it, etc. 47 people dead, over 130 injured.

Ken

Keno..
I have just watched the video and as far as I am concerned the main cause of the accident is the low standard of boat handling, navigational training and regulation of river pilots and tug boat captains in your country.
I used to hold the commercial boat master licence grade 2 in the UK.. this qualified me to operate passenger vessels capable of carrying 220 passengers on a given stretch of water.. a licence for which my boat management and navigation skills required testing every 5 years.
If I wished to transfer from say the Solent to the Thames and its estuary I would have to take and pass another test to prove my knowledge of those waters before I could operate a commercial vessel there.
The film does not demonstrate so much the benifit of radar.. more the pathetic state of the training and regulation of your boat operators and pilots.
Sorry if the above is not what your looking to hear.

[nortonscove]

Anyone asking those questions probably has no idea about the more important and in depth purposes of the radar.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by peter loveridge

I always hesitate to put anything on here as there are always posters who know better, but I have sailed here in Nova Scotia for well over 40 years, wrote the definitive cruising guide to the place , and travelled to the Bahamas and back.

Some time next week, in my home waters, more than 2000 fishing boats, most of them 50 feet long will be loose on the water. They all have radar, many have two, and NONE will be putting out on AIS. They may see you , but may well not if they are setting traps. In any case, they will be the stand on vessel. If you sail though this fleet without radar it is quite likely you will hit something. The sailing directions give more than 20 days of fog for every month of summer, and if you don't mind staying in port for two weeks waiting for it to clear, and you only sail in daylight, yes, you can do with out it, and I certainly did in the past. It wasn't easy and its very easy to come to grief.
For me, radar is the most useful single electronic instrument on the boat, and if you can afford one ( cheaper than many plotters) it is foolhardy in a place like this not to have one. My little Furuno only uses 2.2 A on transmit.
And, yes, a 30 knot fog breeze and 50 feet visibility is not the best time to learn to use it.

Amen to that. I'm in Newfoundland and fog here moves fast and can be like peasoup in a flash so you had better get ready to move through it with no idea what lies ahead. Throw in a few icebergs and a good time is had by all.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

Addiction has it's consequences.

Your statement is true, your comments are rubbish.

Squalls have sunk boats bigger than ours. Finding a path of least fury can save a boat or reduce damage.

Your eyes can spot flotsam at night? Are you using Gen 2 or 3?

I don’t have radar or NV but I’m not dumb enough to tell someone not to employ them if they like and can.