Is the radar an obsolete equipment?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

Someone's a bit too reliant on their electronics. Makes me wonder what you would do if your radar broke or your batteries died.

Once you gain some real world experience, you will realise that a radar can be the difference between entering an anchorage at night (if safe to do so) or having to adjust arrival time / stand off in order to enter in daylight hours. Not only does the radar allow you to check that your charts agree with geography, but it also will allow you to work out how far off from other anchored boats or land you are when you are laying anchor. This might sound silly, but distance perception at night can be extremely difficult. Modern "broadband" radars can even discern mooring bouys.


And then there is also the issue of squall detection which is another fine use of a radar even in daylight hours because squalls don't transmit AIS signals.

[J.Kitchens]

Yeah KeelMe get some "real world experience".

[Peeew]

I find it very useful offshore when trying to avoid the worst of the TStorms.

[KeelMe]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Once you gain some real world experience, you will realize that a radar can be the difference between entering an anchorage at night (if safe to do so) or having to adjust arrival time / stand off in order to enter in daylight hours. Not only does the radar allow you to check that your charts agree with geography, but it also will allow you to work out how far off from other anchored boats or land you are when you are laying anchor. This might sound silly, but distance perception at night can be extremely difficult. Modern "broadband" radars can even discern mooring buoys.


And then there is also the issue of squall detection which is another fine use of a radar even in daylight hours because squalls don't transmit AIS signals.

I guess two circumnavigations, thirteen Atlantic crossings, and cruising full time for the last ten years doesn't count as "real world experience".

How about rounding the horn? Is that "real world experience"?

I never said radar was useless but it's hardly necessary. I have a radar but I can get by just fine without it. To many people rely on it and would be in bad shape if it broke. Timing a trip to arrive during day light is a skill not a punishment.

[J.Kitchens]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

I guess two circumnavigations, thirteen Atlantic crossings, and cruising full time for the last ten years doesn't count as "real world experience".

How about rounding the horn? Is that "real world experience"?

I never said radar was useless but it's hardly necessary. I have a radar but I can get by just fine without it. Too many people rely on it and would be in bad shape if it broke. Timing a trip to arrive during day light is a skill not a punishment.

If you're going to correct the spelling in other peoples quotes, make sure it's correct in your own.

[Wotname]

Radar sees stuff you can't.
Radar doesn't lie (well hardly ever).
Radar determines range and bearing way better than you can.
Nothing else does that.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

I guess two circumnavigations, thirteen Atlantic crossings, and cruising full time for the last ten years doesn't count as "real world experience".

How about rounding the horn? Is that "real world experience"?

I never said radar was useless but it's hardly necessary. I have a radar but I can get by just fine without it. To many people rely on it and would be in bad shape if it broke. Timing a trip to arrive during day light is a skill not a punishment.

Ummm....


Originally Posted by Navicula (with comments in red by Keelme)

I need radar No you don't....I travel over night So do I and I don't need it....I need to know whats out there, boats, markers, even debriI can find this information with my eyes.........my digital radar displays weather really clear and I can and have actually gone around weather or headed for the smaller part of the weather where its broken upI use my eyes for this too but sailing thru a small storm can be fun and refreshing when it's hot......its really cool Can't argue with that. and I would always want itYep, your an addict....

Your vast experience would not appear to have included the use of effective utilization of the aids to navigation you have at hand, based on your above remarks. Unless, of course, your circumnavigations were non-stop. It might also surprise you somewhat that coastal navigation with lots of day hops can actually be a tad trickier, in regards to obstacle avoidance, when compared to open ocean sailing away from the shipping lanes.

Originally Posted by J.Kitchens

If you're going to correct the spelling in other peoples quotes, make sure it's correct in your own.

Yep. Typo AND grammar, too.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

A GPS knows every rock

Wrong. Lots of charts are wrong, sometime massively so.

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

AIS will know every ship

Very wrong.

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

I have better chance of winning the lottery than hitting a small vessel

Very, very wrong. And I sure hope that's not how you skipper a boat.

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

So what the radar is for?

Collision avoidance. Of you electronic aids, It's number one for collision avoidance.

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

And it's power hungry.

Maybe your existing radar, but new ones are very low power.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, ggeorgiev,

An interesting question. What I think is that you already have it, it works, why not give it a go, next time you get out in the rain at night, or the fog, and see if it is something you want to keep. How much you might need it depends on your cruising grounds. If you want to sail to Newfoundland, land of many fogs, it might be a useful tool for you.

I disagree that it is necessarily addictive, but do agree that is possible one might become overly dependent on it, but I do not think it is likely. We sailed for many years without any insurance whatsoever, but we spent money for enhanced safety. It is that realm that radar falls in for me. So, to me, you're better off to try it out in your usage of the boat, considering what you plan for the boat, and then decide. I suspect that most people get used to the look of their boat with the radar (who have it), and the radome ceases to look like an excresence, and becomes a wart on a friend, something at least tolerated.

For us, we do not use the radar the way Annie in WA does. We turn it on when we want to track what a vessel or squall is doing, not every 15 min. On clear nights, one doesn't often need it. I have used it at night to verify the distance off ships and reefs, and the mouths of bays, anywhere there is breaking sea, it will pick up a line outside of which I need to stay. As Wotname and others have written, it gives you real data, real time, which is not something GPS based can do.

Ann

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by KeelMe

Addiction has it's consequences.

I think you may be missing my point and a few others who have posted. we all sail with our own prejudices as to what's essential and what's not. Perhaps a better way to pose the answer to the OP is in what order would you list navigation electronics in order of perceived importance.

My answer was radar is first since nothing can replace it. Now depending on where you sail and how you sail your answer may be different. My eyes aren't as fog piercing as they used to be and I have sailed most of the world before GPS, loran and Decca. And if EVERY vessel had and used AIS I might put that first but until then, radar is mission critical for me. I actually rank my Fujinon's as second, like I said I'm old school. When I'm off soundings my chartplotter is the first thing I turn off.

[roverhi]

If it works I'd keep it. If not, I'd put my money on a good plotter and AIS. Maybe if my cruising ground was Maine or doing the NW Passage might have second thoughts about radar but have sailed a lot of miles and never felt the need since GPS.

[Mike OReilly]

I don’t think this has to get into a “who is Right” debate. The OP made some statements which have been ‘corrected.’ But with regard to the basic question, clearly the answer is: No, you don’t absolutely need radar, just like you don’t need a chart plotter or depth sounder. Heck, you don’t even need a compass or charts. But all these tools are darn useful. And in some circumstances, radar is very useful.

The OP’s cruising area can experience serious fog, and there is plenty of traffic, both large and small. I would not dump a functioning radar (especially in favour of improved aesthetics). But I’m sure there are plenty of boats operating safely in this area without radar.

For the record, I sailed for many years in an area famous for fog (Lake Superior). Lacking radar simply meant making different choices, and travelling more conservatively at times. I cruise Newfoundland now, and I appreciate having radar, but I would manage without it if I had to.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ggeorgiev

Hello everyone,

My child dream is half way in - did purchase a Sefarer 34 last summer, put some work to restore it, and hopefully next summer it will be on the water. One question I can not firmly decide is if it's worth to keep the radar (JRC 1800) or to remove it. Aesthetically the boat will be better without, and I am not sure what advantage it adds.

A GPS knows every rock, the AIS will know every ship, except small ones, and as a friend put it, I have better chance of winning the lottery than hitting a small vessel. So what the radar is for? And it's power hungry.

Opinions welcome!
Thanks, George

Very naive statements.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If the radar is working I’d definitely keep it. You are mistaken to believe "GPS knows every rock, the AIS will know every ship.” A chart plotter (which is what I assume you mean by a GPS) shows an approximation of reality. Radar shows actual reality. AIS is fine, but once again, it is an approximation of what is actually out there.

In around Montreal there is a lot of big and small traffic. I think the odds of getting hit by a small boat are likely higher than a collision with a commercial class vessel. And I bet you deal with a fair bit of fog at times, let alone heavy rainy weather. Radar would be a handy thing in those circumstances, as well as any night travel.

I don’t think radar is essential, but I wouldn’t dump a working one just for aesthetics (how does a radar dome diminish the aesthetics anyway?). And while tools like GPS/chart plotters & AIS are great, they are not directly comparable to radar.

In that context, I often use RADAR to verify charted land masses. As we all know, electronic charts can be WAY off so this verification helps check their accuracy or lack thereof.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Annie in WA

We cruise long distance. Radar is essential to us as the fishing boats don’t have AIS. We don’t transmit AiS either and there are a lot of us out there.

Also, we have used radar to get into anchorages at night. During night passages we use radar to see where other boats AND THE SHORE are. We use it to see squalls and thunderstorms and avoid them. We take it off standby about every 15 milnutes. during a passage. You don’t have to transmit all the time, keep it on standby.

If you don’t have long passages, squalls, or night passages, maybe isn’t necessary. But how do you know what you are going to do with your boat?

Cheeck out David Burch’s book on radar. Great info on how useful it is.

I agree 100%, and will add that it’s important to use it frequently in clear weather to learn how to read radar. We spent five weeks up in Maine and Nova Scotia with three weeks being in pea soup fog. With all the lobster boats and a few pleasure boats out in the fog, we couldn’t have done it without radar and the knowledge of how to use it. We would have been stuck in port for three weeks.

For the fair weather coastal crowd, it’s probably not necessary until it is. You’ll probably also need a few changes of underwear on hand when it is necessary... and you don’t have it.