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Old 05-07-2018, 15:09   #46
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We've owned an SSB radio for over 6 years, and never used it even once even though I have a license. Ancient technology IMO, soon to go extinct except for very limited ship to ship specialty communications. Dockhead I believe also has one but never uses his either.

You realize that P4 is twice as fast at least as Iridium, right? You realize that the synoptic charts available over weather fax are head and shoulders above gribs, right? New is not always better.


Everything has pros and cons. When I step on a boat with SSB I'm happier then with satellite. If your priorities are SMS and Facebook then satellite does better. If you care about weather and email SSB every time. Spend as much time on how to operate SSB as you do diesels and watermakers and you'll feel the same.
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Old 05-07-2018, 15:13   #47
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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True that it can be resold. It won't be worth much when Iridium NEXT flies.. .
What makes you think that? Only if they sell the much faster data at the same rates, rather than making NEXT an expensive premium option.

In an uncompetitive but marginally profitable market like this, that will never happen -- the will milk NEXT for as much cash flow as they can get from it, and leave the normal speed service probably at the same prices, for ordinary mortals, unless I am deeply mistaken.

Anyway it hardly matter when the gear costs less than a boat buck. If I'm wrong I'll just throw it away without looking back.
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Old 05-07-2018, 15:18   #48
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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What makes you think that? Only if they sell the much faster data at the same rates, rather than making NEXT an expensive premium option.

I expect the hardware will be at the same price point. The old hardware will be worth 1/3 of retail at best. My opinion.


The constellation is near end-of-life anyway. I'm betting the new data plans will be only slightly more expensive than the current ones and the expectation will be consumers use new hardware so they can get the newer speeds. You never know. I could be wrong. Marketing was never my strong suite.
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Old 05-07-2018, 15:28   #49
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
You realize that P4 is twice as fast at least as Iridium, right? You realize that the synoptic charts available over weather fax are head and shoulders above gribs, right? New is not always better.


Everything has pros and cons. When I step on a boat with SSB I'm happier then with satellite. If your priorities are SMS and Facebook then satellite does better. If you care about weather and email SSB every time. Spend as much time on how to operate SSB as you do diesels and watermakers and you'll feel the same.
Well, I'm an Extra Class ham, and I love HF radio, and radio in general, but I can't agree with most of this. P4 is not really twice as fast as Iridium in real life use at all -- it might be nominally, under ideal conditions, but often only after a lot of work figuring out propagation and fiddling (I don't have P4 myself, though, just PIII). If you figure all that time into the data rate, it's low indeed, and you cannot be sure of always getting a connection, especially in higher latitudes, and especially with the current state of the ionosphere. Iridium just works, slowly but perfectly and effortlessly, and works the same over the entire planet. Conditions and propagation are always ideal; you just don't have to worry about it.

Even for a guy like me who loves radio, it is very, very welcome NOT to have to be the First Radio Officer on board when I don't have time for ti -- when I have complex passage planning, route planning, navigation, and other work to do, and I just need the weather data (not only GRIBs!) NOW and can't afford to be distracted fiddling around to get it.

My SSB is disconnected at the moment, but I will be using it again when I find time to get the new antenna system set up. It does a lot of things you can't do with satellite and is just plain fun to play with, if you have time for that. I do like to get WEFAX with it, but I can get WEFAX on demand, not waiting for the broadcast schedule, on Iridium too. I can get all of the text maritime forecasts. One friend on here has even written a program which will email ice charts to me.


So why indeed should a cruiser who is not a radio nerd, even want to "spend as much time" on how to operate his radio, as he spends on his diesel? That's really the crux of it, I think. Most of us struggle to find the time to master the really essential skills like diesel engines and weather and sail trim and navigation and just don't need yet one more whole profession.
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Old 05-07-2018, 15:53   #50
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

I'm with DH and Kenomac on this one, and I don't own a Go. The boat we have came with an SSB and P4 installed and I'm very familiar with their use having dabbled in Ham and SSB for decades. But when you're in the middle of a long passage there are frequently only one or two short propagation windows that will get you decent data speeds, they're usually during the radio operator's off watch while he's trying to sleep, and every other boat in the same general part of the ocean is trying to use the same stations at the same times.

I'm still using it because I have it (old habits die hard) but if I had to choose between a P4 modem at $2k and satellite I'd choose satellite, hands down for all the reasons given. I could get the satellite hardware and at least a year of service for just the price of the P4 much less any other associated costs. I might still install an SSB/Ham rig just because I enjoy playing with them, but for data satellite wins hands down even if P4 is "faster" (and it won't be with NEXT by leaps and bounds).
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Old 05-07-2018, 16:15   #51
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

I just wrote a blog post on the full cost of getting weather info via SSB and Iridium Go:

The Unlikely Boat Builder: The Cost of Professional Weather Forecasts
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Old 05-07-2018, 17:01   #52
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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Originally Posted by jalmberg View Post
I just wrote a blog post on the full cost of getting weather info via SSB and Iridium Go:

The Unlikely Boat Builder: The Cost of Professional Weather Forecasts
In your writeup are you comparing downloading WeFax on SSB vs downloading WeFax on a GO, or downloading GRIBs on each? It just doesn't take that much time or amphours to get a GRIB on tsTABle SSB for us.

The daily amphour use from our SSB is negligible, but we just get GRIBs and a few text forecasts.

The only time the SSB is on for an extended time is when I'm listening to some endless cruisers net.
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Old 05-07-2018, 23:03   #53
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

One thing that hasn't come into this discussion is location. And, for SSB it's a lot like real estate - location, location, location.

Iridium satellite orbits are situated every 30 degrees of longitude. And there are six (operational) satellites in each polar orbit, meaning they are approximately 60 degrees of latitude apart. For any place on earth you are never more than 15 degrees of longitude from an orbital plane (more meaningfully the satellites are never less than 75 degrees above the horizon) and a satellite is never more than 30 degrees north or south of you (again, at least 60 degrees high). That means you have great line of sight, generally to a minimum of 4 satellites no matter where you are.

Contrast that with SSB shore stations. If you cruise the northern Atlantic or the Caribbean you're sandwiched between the Americas and Europe and have your pick of shore stations at a reasonable distance. With the level of cruiser interest the tropical South Pacific also has pretty reasonable coverage. But even the western North Pacific can get marginal, and if you're in the Southern or Indian Oceans, well, it's pretty much always a wing and a prayer until you approach the continents - and they're pretty far apart.

I started with a P2 modem something like 17 years ago and I've been using WinLink and Sailmail ever since. Still do. But if someone asks me these days where to get weather I'd tell them to get a satellite service. Sure you can DX and fiddle around with the radio to get your weather. But it can be tiring, frustrating, and sometimes entirely futile if your location isn't great.

I enjoy all of the challenges of DX when in "ham mode" and I'm just playing with the radio and/or antenna and looking for some outside contact. But if what you want is to get the d**n weather forecast, at a convenient time, then go satellite. Unless you are in one of the sweet spots anything else can be a real PITA.
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Old 05-07-2018, 23:23   #54
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

I'ved cruised with both, first SSB/winlink then Iridium Go.....
I never had any trouble with SSB in the Pacific. The Iridium Go works well. I think I may have downloaded more often with Go, easy and had unlimited data.
I downloaded Gribs, surface carts, email, etc from both.
I will be departed NZ in a few weeks with both on board now and will try and do a side by side comparison.....I think I will duplicate downloads to compare.
I have Pactor 3. This way I will be able to decide to keep or unload Go...transfer monthly rate to Rum kitty perhaps or pony up for a Pactor 4.
Stay tuned...................
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Old 06-07-2018, 00:41   #55
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

Great thread for those of us who are looking to upgrade from SSB.

Here are my needs, which can be handled via my unlimited cellular plan when in 4G range, but will I be able to do this (without frustration) using Iridium Go or NEXT?

1 Weather data is my priority. To download and overlay on the MFD

2 Simple texts to family/friends worldwide via WhatsApp or Messenger is enough. Voice is a bonus!

3 I need a reasonable Internet banking connection to download monthly Bank Account Statements in PDF Files (6 in total) which confirm autopayments of credit cards and Internet transfers.

They each have dedicated security devices, so I am not worried about unauthorized transfers, but if I am registering a New Payee and Transfer, I would need a solid data connection.

Being able to continue my only social addiction (CF) and to Google, is a Bonus

4 Business project emails are most happily on the wane, but I do need to stay in touch with corporate affairs as a director of a few companies that are managed by others. I can have the offices send me the documents to sign in small packets of 1mb.


....With the above needs, what hardware and plan should I be considering for 2019 cruising Western Pacific?
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:00   #56
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

We recently flooded our SSB control unit (an ICOM 802DSC) and the quote to repair it (the assessment for which we paid nearly 100 NZD) is 2800 NZD. A new one will cost around 3200 NZD. Given no guarantees with the repair job it’s going to be a new radio. However, I’m wondering whether to replace the SSB and also buy a Pactor modem, or instead sell the antenna tuner (AT 140 - anyone in NZ want one, and a 4m whip antenna?) and go purely satellite?

During our last set of passages we used the SSB for voice forecasts (no modem) and listened to some cruiser net traffic, and used an Iridium 9505 sat phone for gribs, synoptic charts, and texting/emailing updates to our router and having some fun with our families. The SSB just seemed flakey to use and quite frankly I have zero interest in figuring out how to use it better. When we tried calling Maritime NZ to give them our 48 hr notice of arrival I tried calling on the SSB over a total of 6 hours on a variety of frequencies and only got through sporadically. I ended up calling them on the sat phone - nice and clear and direct.

I don’t really like the on going subscription or prepay charges a satellite system requires, and at the moment only Inmarsat C has distress signalling that effectively replicates SSB DSC distress signalling. But it’s going to cost about 5000 NZD to get email over SSB and that will pay for a hell of a lot of satellite time. Unlike some others we don’t need to do any business from offshore so SSB email would be fine. But I am concerned about not having mid-long distance distress signalling capability. Not to say not complying with the boat’s flag state communications requirements.

I understand that Iridium NEXT will have distress signalling capability and will be GMDSS compliant, so that should take care of flag state requirements and emergency signalling.

Given all that, any point rebuilding the SSB installation (plus a modem), or do we wait with our trusty 9505 until NEXT equipment goes on sale? Hopefully before next May when we’ll be heading up to Tonga.
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:52   #57
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
P4 is not really twice as fast as Iridium in real life use at all

It is in my experience. P4 is 10k+ bps while Iridium is 2.4 kbps. In the real world P4 is about twice as fast, not the 4X the specs would indicate. Both use essentially the same data compression.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
often only after a lot of work figuring out propagation and fiddling (I don't have P4 myself, though, just PIII).

A lot of work? In Airmail touch F6 to open the terminal window. Touch F8 to open the propagation model. Go for the green. No work at all. It certainly helps to understand basic propagation. It's simple: check email mornings over coffee and just before dinner in both cases over grayline. If you're in really high latitudes (really high, not Cowes) drop back to PII.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I do like to get WEFAX with it, but I can get WEFAX on demand, not waiting for the broadcast schedule, on Iridium too.

If you are willing to pay for what you can get for free that's fine. I let the WEFAX fun over night and review the images while I'm doing email in the morning.



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it won't be (faster) with NEXT by leaps and bounds).

I look forward to that but will believe it when I see it. At current data rates Iridium (the best of available consumer grade satellite) is far from perfect. Physics is not on our side. I expect more fading and rain attenuation with NEXT. We'll see.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:12   #58
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

Hi, I assume you have an HF SSB radio, essential gear for offshore cruising. If so, Sailmail for a non Ham is the absolute zero cost option other than an annual membership fee. Using the modem connected via lap top to the SSB one can download an infinite array of weather data along with TX/RX of regular e-mails. Modem costs about $800. Visit https://sailmail.com. Bake
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:14   #59
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

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Almost certainly requiring all new client hardware.

Actually, when GO came out Iridium claimed that it was compatible with NEXT. That could very well still be true.


Also, I've heard that you can use a regular Iridium SIM and plan with GO hardware, if that runs cheaper for you. You'd have to check this with the supplier, but this might be an answer for the OP: run the same service as your friends, just with newer hardware.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:46   #60
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Re: Iridium Go - is it really a good deal?

That's really what I want to clarify.

As a poor liveaboard I have no interest in spending $130+ every month except maybe when specifically making a long passage offshore, or caught in a big storm area by mistake, certainly not year round.

I don't mind investing in gear in order to lower average monthly cost.

So, sticking within Iridium for now, and ignoring Next vaporware

The 95x5 handsets are going very cheap, but I greatly prefer generic WiFi connectivity from any screen device, rather than anything more complex tied to just a PC.

So I was resigned to spending $550+ for a Go!

Until I read here that the not-unlimited data rates are more expensive than with the 95x5 handsets.

But if there are workarounds to get Go! convenience at (more) reasonable per-MB pricing, ideally pre-pay PAYG with unused MB carry-over, please let me know.

Or given the above, what do you all recommend?
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