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Old 02-05-2021, 17:58   #31
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
...............
But many pros eschew ratchet crimpers. Maybe I've never had a good pair of them, or maybe I never had the skill to use them properly (or maybe both!), but I never liked them. I'm actually curious why pros don't like ratchet crimpers.
As retired pro myself, I share your curiosity.

However there are pros and then there are pros - the spectrum is huge and only exceed by the spectrum of ratchet crimpers available.

I am guessing we have different workplace experiences and different concepts of acceptable work practices; such things colour opinions.

I have spent a working lifetime of crimping zillions of wires ranging in size from 1,000MCM to 26 AWG and as sure as heck, I don't know everything about crimping tools.

However I do know that ratchet crimpers give repeatable results. Now the results may not be acceptable, but they are repeatable - this is important IMO. The only way to improve the quality of the crimp is to know why it isn't consistently good enough. A ratchet crimper removes one major aspect of poor operator technique.

Of course one can't compare a $30 multi die hand operated ratchet crimping tool to a $2,000 single die hand operated ratchet crimping tool complete with a current calibration certificate but both will give repeatable results; at least in the short term (months).

In some work areas, the customer will accept average work as long as it works and isn't expensive. Such pros will have a viewpoint that is very different from mine.

In some of my workspaces, the serial number (and calibration certificate) of the crimping tool along with the lot number of the crimps used were recorded in the worksheet of the work carried out and then personally certified to a standard. The worksheet became part of the historical maintenance log book. I'm not suggesting one's sailing boat requires such attention to detail but it does colour one's opinion of what is best practice. It is sobering to know my signature and the tooling I used on a job I did on say a certain day in March, 1990 (or whenever) is recorded in hard copy and can be accessed if necessary.

We also calibrated crimping tools to NATA standards for outside pros. The calibration period is determined by the expected time the tool is expected to give consistent crimps. A 'no name' tool might be adjusted to meet the calibration requirements but only get a 6 month certificate whereas a top line tool might never (or more correctly - rarely) need adjustment and would get a 2 year certificate.

So I will only put a ratchet crimpers in my hands but others can do differently; they wouldn't get any work from me though....

FWIW, using a ratchet crimper is simple, right. Just for fun, test your knowledge against the manufactures way - nine pages on how to correctly use a $2,000 single die hand operated crimping tool. http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2313713.pdf

EDIT: There are of course, many types and styles of terminations where ratchet crimpers aren't available, in such instances the above notes don't apply.
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:04   #32
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
As retired pro myself, I share your curiosity.

However there are pros and then there are pros - the spectrum is huge and only exceed by the spectrum of ratchet crimpers available.

I am guessing we have different workplace experiences and different concepts of acceptable work practices; such things colour opinions.

I have spent a working lifetime of crimping zillions of wires ranging in size from 1,000MCM to 26 AWG and as sure as heck, I don't know everything about crimping tools.

However I do know that ratchet crimpers give repeatable results. Now the results may not be acceptable, but they are repeatable - this is important IMO. The only way to improve the quality of the crimp is to know why it isn't consistently good enough. A ratchet crimper removes one major aspect of poor operator technique.

Of course one can't compare a $30 multi die hand operated ratchet crimping tool to a $2,000 single die hand operated ratchet crimping tool complete with a current calibration certificate but both will give repeatable results; at least in the short term (months).

In some work areas, the customer will accept average work as long as it works and isn't expensive. Such pros will have a viewpoint that is very different from mine.

In some of my workspaces, the serial number (and calibration certificate) of the crimping tool along with the lot number of the crimps used were recorded in the worksheet of the work carried out and then personally certified to a standard. The worksheet became part of the historical maintenance log book. I'm not suggesting one's sailing boat requires such attention to detail but it does colour one's opinion of what is best practice. It is sobering to know my signature and the tooling I used on a job I did on say a certain day in March, 1990 (or whenever) is recorded in hard copy and can be accessed if necessary.

We also calibrated crimping tools to NATA standards for outside pros. The calibration period is determined by the expected time the tool is expected to give consistent crimps. A 'no name' tool might be adjusted to meet the calibration requirements but only get a 6 month certificate whereas a top line tool might never (or more correctly - rarely) need adjustment and would get a 2 year certificate.

So I will only put a ratchet crimpers in my hands but others can do differently; they wouldn't get any work from me though....

FWIW, using a ratchet crimper is simple, right. Just for fun, test your knowledge against the manufactures way - nine pages on how to correctly use a $2,000 single die hand operated crimping tool. http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2313713.pdf

EDIT: There are of course, many types and styles of terminations where ratchet crimpers aren't available, in such instances the above notes don't apply.

Thanks for that! Seems completely logical, and YES, repeatability was what attracted me to ratchet crimpers in the first place -- it seems to me that there is almost nothing more important than that.


Nevertheless, I can't count the number of pros who have criticized my choice of ratchet crimpers.


As to calibration -- surely my 10 year old Pressmasters must need it by now. I didn't expect them to last so long. Yet, the crimps are still stronger than the wire (the only way I have to test).
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:15   #33
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
As retired pro myself, I share your curiosity.

However there are pros and then there are pros - the spectrum is huge and only exceed by the spectrum of ratchet crimpers available.

I am guessing we have different workplace experiences and different concepts of acceptable work practices; such things colour opinions.

I have spent a working lifetime of crimping zillions of wires ranging in size from 1,000MCM to 26 AWG and as sure as heck, I don't know everything about crimping tools.

However I do know that ratchet crimpers give repeatable results. Now the results may not be acceptable, but they are repeatable - this is important IMO. The only way to improve the quality of the crimp is to know why it isn't consistently good enough. A ratchet crimper removes one major aspect of poor operator technique.

Of course one can't compare a $30 multi die hand operated ratchet crimping tool to a $2,000 single die hand operated ratchet crimping tool complete with a current calibration certificate but both will give repeatable results; at least in the short term (months).

In some work areas, the customer will accept average work as long as it works and isn't expensive. Such pros will have a viewpoint that is very different from mine.

In some of my workspaces, the serial number (and calibration certificate) of the crimping tool along with the lot number of the crimps used were recorded in the worksheet of the work carried out and then personally certified to a standard. The worksheet became part of the historical maintenance log book. I'm not suggesting one's sailing boat requires such attention to detail but it does colour one's opinion of what is best practice. It is sobering to know my signature and the tooling I used on a job I did on say a certain day in March, 1990 (or whenever) is recorded in hard copy and can be accessed if necessary.

We also calibrated crimping tools to NATA standards for outside pros. The calibration period is determined by the expected time the tool is expected to give consistent crimps. A 'no name' tool might be adjusted to meet the calibration requirements but only get a 6 month certificate whereas a top line tool might never (or more correctly - rarely) need adjustment and would get a 2 year certificate.

So I will only put a ratchet crimpers in my hands but others can do differently; they wouldn't get any work from me though....

FWIW, using a ratchet crimper is simple, right. Just for fun, test your knowledge against the manufactures way - nine pages on how to correctly use a $2,000 single die hand operated crimping tool. http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2313713.pdf

EDIT: There are of course, many types and styles of terminations where ratchet crimpers aren't available, in such instances the above notes don't apply.
You never told us what would be a good (but not $2,000) set of crimpers for a DIY'er whose doesn't want junk.
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:37   #34
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
.......

Nevertheless, I can't count the number of pros who have criticized my choice of ratchet crimpers.
Are they criticising the Pressmaster brand, the price or because they are the ratchet style?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
As to calibration -- surely my 10 year old Pressmasters must need it by now. I didn't expect them to last so long. Yet, the crimps are still stronger than the wire (the only way I have to test).
Well any calibration certificate will have long expired but whether or not they need adjustment is a completely different question. You might be surprised just how well they hold up after this time. 10 years is nothing in the hands of an amateur and if the quality was there in the first place, it will still be there.

Doing some back of the envelope calculations, I would expect a top end crimp tool to remain within calibration limits after 25 or 50 thousand crimps. With the adjustment range available, this could give the tool a life cycle of something like half a million crimps. If one was willing to accept an 'almost' calibration, we are talking a couple of million crimps. Don't quote these numbers, they are only educated guesses.

If your tool has never been adjusted and if the adjustment is an external toothed 'cog' and if you have any doubts, you could try and adjust the jaws to be one 'tooth' tighter. However, even if you do nothing, the chances are your crimps are way better than many - pros or not.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:09   #35
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
... Nevertheless, I can't count the number of pros who have criticized my choice of ratchet crimpers ...
My suspician is that these 'countless pros' are criticising your specific product choice, not ratchet crimpers, themselves.
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:18   #36
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ View Post
You never told us what would be a good (but not $2,000) set of crimpers for a DIY'er whose doesn't want junk.
Well I don't have any recent purchase experience to share. I last purchased home use crimpers about 25+ years back and they are still going strong. They were Swedish Greenpar ratchet crimpers with the PIDG style dies. Cost around $100 way back then.

Work crimpers were alway AMP/Molex/TE Connectivity etc with prices in the order of $500 to $2,000. We matched the tool brand to the crimp brand.

If I had to recommend anything, I would suggest the ones shown in post 16 and get all four additional die sets. You would never ever wear them out and the additional dies will cover anything you might find on recreational boat (or even an off-shore oil rig ). Yes, you might have to jump through some hoops to get them into NZ but IMO, it would be worth it.

https://shop.marinehowto.com/product...lar-crimp-tool

However I'm sure there are other good tool but there is also a shipload of very average tooling out there these days.
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Old 03-05-2021, 06:29   #37
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

These guys sell the connectors cheaper than most.

Wire as well.

https://www.genuinedealz.com
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:09   #38
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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My suspician is that these 'countless pros' are criticising your specific product choice, not ratchet crimpers, themselves.

No, it was inevitably American pros, and the thesis was that ratchet crimpers in general are for amateurs. According to them, real men use the ones which look like bolt cutters.
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Old 03-05-2021, 16:30   #39
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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No, it was inevitably American pros, and the thesis was that ratchet crimpers in general are for amateurs. According to them, real men use the ones which look like bolt cutters.
Very sad state of affairs....sort of proves the point there is wide spectrum in the quality of workmanship and knowledge among the pros however it seems some prefer to remain ignorant and emotional needy.

You need to mix with a higher class of pros
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Old 03-05-2021, 16:36   #40
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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No, it was inevitably American pros, and the thesis was that ratchet crimpers in general are for amateurs. According to them, real men use the ones which look like bolt cutters.


As an American pro.....Iíll be the first to admit that the field is full of those who are most certainly not even aware of what theyíre doing.

I do carry a variety of ratchet crimpers, but there are many times when the Klein 1005 is the only tool that will fit in a cavity with the wire , a terminal, and human hands. The problem with these crimpers is that without sufficient hand strength the crimp isnít complete or sufficient. Hereís where ratchet crimpers save those who donít know what a proper crimp looks like.
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Old 03-05-2021, 19:35   #41
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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No, it was inevitably American pros, and the thesis was that ratchet crimpers in general are for amateurs. According to them, real men use the ones which look like bolt cutters.
Oh yair, toxic masculinity at work again.

Ladies don't have the grip strength of great big male electrical workers and don't want to have to grunt and fart whilst crimping hence the need for ratchet crimpers.

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Old 04-05-2021, 03:39   #42
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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..........
I do carry a variety of ratchet crimpers, but there are many times when the Klein 1005 is the only tool that will fit in a cavity with the wire , a terminal, and human hands. .........
You make a valid point; there are times when a simpler crimp tool is necessary and in such instances, they will do the job. Again this can be very customer dependant. In the instance you describe, a recreational boat customer is hardly likely to be willing to pay you for another day's labour just so you can create enough access to use the 'right' tool.

I could share stories of where creating access has taken a day or more in order to crimp a single ring terminal to a 22 awg wire. The customer required the work to be completed in accordance with his approved system of maintenance, no shortcuts allowed. This can get expensive .
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:32   #43
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

Use transparent tubes with glue inside and print out your cable numbers with a common printer and stuff it inside.
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:56   #44
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

I have had a pair of these for a year now and they work great they looklike a knock off of the crimpers the OP listed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 07-05-2021, 08:14   #45
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Re: Heat shrink connectors & crimpers

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I have had a pair of these for a year now and they work great they looklike a knock off of the crimpers the OP listed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
But they don't work with heat shrink connectors.
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