HAM, Marine SSB, Other?

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

See IC-M802 All new digital SSB with remoteable control head offers the clearest reception ever.

George

That is not an Icom website. It's an Icom dealer.

[btrayfors]

Gord and Bob,

It's easy to see how someone could think this came from Icom's website. It doesn't.

Icom's website is "www.icomusa.com" icom usa

The cited website is Icom aircraft radio, icom batteries, icom vhf radio, icom 7000, icom america which is NOT Icom's site. The domain name ("www.icom-US") is owned by Sonset Marine, i.e.,

JOHN DIEL
3732 BAILEY
MARLETTE, Michigan 48453

Unless you're an IT geek, you may have missed this.

I can't find any mention of the HAM language on any true Icom website, including the home site in Japan. Nor is their mention of ham use in the current M802 brochures or manuals.

However, the language is very prevalent amongst DEALERS for Icom radios. Somewhere along the line, either some dealer stuck it in or, possibly, used Icom's language which they've since retracted.

Personally, I don't give a rat's a__ whether the FCC has "type approved" a commercial radio for HAM use. It's always been true that the licensed ham is responsible for emissions and for not causing interference.

The reverse, however, is NOT true: there are good reasons why the FCC insists on type-acceptance for radios used on one or another commercial bands, including the marine band. Though some would like to think it isn't so, marine SSB radios really ARE built to a higher standard than are ham rigs, particularly insofar as suppression of spurious emissions is concerned.

Bottom line: Most any MARINE SSB radio can be made to operate on the ham bands, and if you're a licensed ham I wouldn't have any problem with that. I don't think the FCC would, either, since they have bigger fish to fry and this is a very minor concern.

Similarly, many ham rigs can be made to operate on the marine bands, but this is ILLEGAL except in a bona fide emergency. I think there are good and valid reasons for this, but recognize that many sailors choose to use them for this purpose anyway.

And, there's always gonna be someone who "pushes the envelope" and places everyone in jeopardy. I know of one active "net control" station on a marine SSB net who insists on tuning his rig 80 cycles low in frequency. He says this makes him sound like "Darth Vader", and likes the distinction. Well, you can't do this with a marine radio so it's obvious he's using a ham rig. And, to experienced radio operators with decent ears, it just plain sounds offensive.

Bill

[GordMay]

Of course Bob is correct – the linked “ICOM-US” site is NOT affiliated with Icom America (or Japan), and ICOM makes no such statement (that I could find).
The link was provided in answer to fairbank56 query regarding Bob’s quote.

[Sunspot Baby]

Thanks, I am surfing the net and think I now have the real Icom America web site. They do not mention HAM or Amateur radio specifically, but clearly show that the unit is capable of operating on those frequencies in the table or capabilities.

When I bought mine they were sold in a "locked" state so that only Marine SSB freqs were available, but the technical told how to unlock it for others. I am told by newer purchasers that theirs came unlocked. Hearsay only.

GeneralFrequency coverage
Rx
Tx
(unit: MHz)
0.5– 29.9999 (continuous)
1.6– 2.9999, 4.0– 4.9999, 6.0– 6.9999
8.0– 8.9999, 12.0– 13.9999, 16.0– 17.9999
18.0– 19.9999, 22.0– 22.9999, 25.0– 27.5000

I found this at the web site IC-M802 HF Marine Transceiver - Specifications - Icom America

The Icom usa link in Bill's message takes me to a "life styles" web site.

I feel sure based on the huge install base of Icom radios, that the FCC is aware of these capabilities.

[btrayfors]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

The Icom usa link in Bill's message takes me to a "life styles" web site.

Yes, thanks for catching that. The correct site is "www.icomamerica.com", not "www.icomusa.com". Confusing isn't it?

By the way, many/most HF radios have the capability to transmit on virtually any HF frequency: ham, marine, aviation, land mobile, or other. Some are specifically designed for use on several different services (like the Yaesu System 600).

However, to use them on ANY service, you need to be licensed for that service (e.g., marine, ham, aviation, etc.) irrespective of whether or not the radio is CAPABLE of transmitting there or is type-accepted for use there.

Bill

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Sunspot Baby

I am told by newer purchasers that theirs came unlocked. Hearsay only.

Yes, they now ship "opened up" to transmit on the entire frequency range. Previously you either used cloning software or a keying sequence at power up. Another thing I have recently discovered with the M802 is that they are shipped with the speech compression feature turned off, yet this feature is one of their selling points. Iv'e been able to check about 6 different radio's, 2 of them recently purchased. Iv'e used the cloning software to turn it on which is the only way to do it.

Eric

BTW, the link you provided from Icom only shows that it can receive 0.5-29.999Mhz and that it can only transmit on the marine bands. It does not indicate the the radio is "opened up". But they do have the Icom America - Knowledge Base Article 57DG1541A3 procedure to do that in their documentation.

[GordMay]

What seem (to me) to be an odd & unconventional opinion, expressed by a cruising icon.
Excerpted from “Chapter 4, Passage Planning” (page 39):

Landfalls of Paradise: Cruising Guide to the Pacific Islands ~ by Earl R. Hinz

“... single-sideband radio has not proven itself of real value to the blue-water cruiser. Its high cost is not compatible with a cruising budget ...”

Goto (p. 39): Landfalls of Paradise: Cruising ... - Google Book Search

Or (Cover/Index):
Landfalls of Paradise: Cruising ... - Google Book Search

[btrayfors]

Gord,

Yep, taken alone, it's as you say, "an unconventional opinion".

However, (1) it's taken out of context; and (2) it's a bit dated.

Earl Hinz goes on to spend a full page talking up the virtues of ham radio for long-distance cruisers. His point is that ham radio is more useful than marine SSB for the long-distance cruiser, and by "long-distance cruiser" he's talking about the Pacific. There's lots to support that notion, some of which he goes on to describe.

One very important thing he notes is that ham radio is more useful for the Pacific cruiser because of the abundance of ham stations in diverse locations. A ham can communicate with anyone located anywhere, while the marine SSB user is generally constrained to try to contact ONE -- or at best a very few -- shore stations, and radio propagation may not be open over the path to that station. This is even more true since the demise of HF shore stations several years ago other than WLO in New Orleans (and, very recently, its new affiliate facility in the Pacific Northwest). That's actually a very good point, often missed by those considering safety and HF radio.

Two fairly recent phenomena tend to modulate Earl's statement about marine SSB: (1) cruisers tend to be older and more wealthy and on bigger boats than they used to be, so the marine SSB cost isn't such a huge obstacle; and (2) a number of useful NETS have developed on the marine bands, modeled after those on the ham bands. Lots of cruisers participate in these nets.

Bottom line: there was a time and a place where ham radio was the only (real) game in town for the far-ranging cruising sailor. But that time has changed. Now, if anything, a case can be made for carrying BOTH ham and marine SSB aboard! I do, and find them both very useful.

Bill

[Rick]

Give me my HAM rig for tweaking in the most difficult communications and for rapidly changing freqs.

Give me my marine SSB for quickly teaching anyone how to make emergency calls without being intimidated by the rig.

[liberty16]

This is a great thread, very interesting!

[RaptorDance]

I find the opinion that one should have BOTH a Marine SSB and a Ham HF Radio on board very interesting. It's very attractive to my geek side... However:

What do you do for antennas? Assuming your primary is your insulated backstay - do you try to switch it (and the attendant antenna tuner) between your two radios? Or do you go ahead an put on a second HF antenna: a big 23+ foot vertical???

Cheers,
Bill
happy with our ICOM 710RT, tuner and insulated backstay

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Rick

Give me my HAM rig for tweaking in the most difficult communications and for rapidly changing freqs.

I agree that a ham rig is good to have if you are really trying to work the tough ones. For day-to-day communications, including the ham nets, I am quite happy with the Icom 710 RT SSB. It doesn't have all the fancy IF-shift, noise blankers, adaptive filters, etc, that my ham gear has, but when I am on the boat I don't really miss it.

One thing that really made a difference was the "one-button transmit frequency selection" modification (ask me if you don't know about this one). With this mod, it is quite easy to tune around and operate on arbitrary frequencies without having to go through the 710's normal tedious and complicated procedure. This makes it much easier to "go up 15kHz" when you want to make a contact after a net.

[btrayfors]

Bill,

I've got two switches: a 2-position coaxial "rig switch" and a 4-position coaxial "antenna switch". This allows me to select either the FT-900AT ham rig or the FT-600 marine rig and connect to any of four antennas.

I carry two dipoles on the foredeck (usually 20m and 15m), an "alternate backstay antenna" which operates thru an SG-230 tuner just like the traditional insulated backstay antenna, and a Hustler mobile whip antenna with changeable resonators, located on the pushpit.

Both switches are within easy reach of the nav station. Here's a pic of the two radios: Gallery :: Miscellaneous 2007 :: NavStn_0140

and the "alternate backstay": Gallery :: Miscellaneous 2007 :: AltBksty2_0130

Bill

[fairbank56]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

It doesn't have all the fancy IF-shift, noise blankers, adaptive filters, etc, that my ham gear has, but when I am on the boat I don't really miss it.

I use a 710 in my shop at work mainly for CW. It does have a noise blanker but it is not adjustable and Iv'e never had a need to use it. I have also installed a 500Hz filter which is for CW/FSK use. One other thing Iv'e done Paul that you might want to try if your good with electronics. I removed the channel selector switch, disassembled it, and filed down the two detent wheels inside. Now it's as easy to rotate with one finger as the knobs on the 802. Makes it a lot easier to scan around the bands when your in "vfo" mode.

Eric

[Steve Pope]

what is the best way to set up the Di-poles so they don't interfere with the sails etc??