Good Laptop for Onboard?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Prairie 36

Have several Thinkpads, one which is over 20 yrs old which still runs well (can't bare to get rid of it), another one which is 16 yrs old which I still use time to time since it runs apps that won't run on Win10. Both of these laptops were used while living aboard and cruising for 5 years. I had a secure location for them and used a display in my nav station with bluetooth keyboard and mouse. You can now see a little discoloration in the receptacles, but all still work well. To me the Thinkpad is the best and most rugged laptop around. At home I have been using a T410 since 2011. Installed a ssd a few years ago and it runs like a top.

Good to know.

Thanks.

[stormalong]

A NUC it an Intel "Next Unit of Computing". A very small computer - about 4 X 4 X 2 inches. A VESA mount is the standardise 4 screw pattern that is on the bach of televisions and monitors so that you can use a variety on mounting brackets. The NUC comes with a bracket that screws into a standard 100 MM VESA mount and the NUC can hang in the bracket. I have a NUC but don't care for their VESA mount because it is kept in place by gravity and on a boat it could bounce out.

[RedneckRedcoat]

Ok ill bite on this one.....

Firstly your are obviously a consumer with hobbist experience and an amateur in terms of the Software and Electronics Industry. Secondly saying in a public forum "i don't want to call you a lier" is a double negative. Pretty insulting in terms of someone new to this forum and just getting into sailing but i thank you for it , really brightened my day and i have ben called far worse.

If you really must, google "Mercedes-Benz Data Leak Lesson: Lock Down Code Repositories". it doesn't go into the full details but some. The article only goes into partial information but hints at the code and solutions used.

Now for a little history about someone that does a little bit more than a google search. Firstly i have two degrees both in electronics and software development. I have worked for the UK Government, Brother International, Mustek Corporation, was a Microsoft ALM Ranger for two years and now work for a multi-billion dollar company in the oil and gas industry.

I am also am a member of the Gartner DevOps Forum and a Whitesource Partner and have access to information that is not generally published on the net with some details covered by NDA's. I work with developers and engineers from AWS, Azure and Google on a daily basis. I currently Run an Apple Mac with Parallels VM using Windows 10. It gives me the best of both worlds but cost well over $3000 and i wouldn't for the love of money stick it in a marine environment

Lastly...

To your points , first other than a military grade computer which most people can't get hold off, there is not one machine out there that can withstand the harsh marine environment. Salt corrodes and will do on any device that has an open port that is not covered. If the screen bends or if you have to plug something in, moisture is going to get in and eventually you will get a failure.

The majority of components either come for China or Russia regardless of what device they are put into. Lastly your experience as a consumer is a little different to the realities of industrial experience and insider knowledge.

Your average laptop PSU is no different that the one you probably used for your PI and current machine. All of them are made to similar standards and use similar components. From experience most Taiwan , Japanese and Chinese manufactures even use the same schematics which are normally based on the chip manufactures recommendation.

Your initial comment was that a PI would be a poor choice, not the case it is housed in or the PSU. But in the case of both, you can upgrade those. in fact your average chart plotter is probably using the same ARM Processor but having not opened one up and looked i might be making assumptions. In terms of electronics the PI is just as good in my more informed opinion and not google searched opinion.

Having worked with all OS's and various different hardware solution. my recommendation is get what you can afford, suits your style of working and your most comfortable with. An application is only as good as the developer or developer team that wrote it and rarely has anything to do with the OS. One would hope you are not using windows 7 anymore. That OS is not even supported in the mainstream by MS any longer and that is a security venerability.

So i would just like to thank you for the warm welcome to the forum and you poorly misinformed information you have given this forum member. From someone that actually works in the industry and has done so for 30+ years and has a little more than consumer or googled information.

Cheers and Fair-winds

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I don't want to call you a liar but I'm skeptical about this claim. Would you happen to have any proof? I've tried google but nothing came up making that claim.



The circuits on the stock raspberry pi are not built to withstand poor environmental conditions. Also, at least the early versions - I gave up on using them years ago, had power issues and SD cards would often go bad prematurely.


So, unless you built a case that could handle the environmental (heat / cool / moisture / vibrations) factors of operating on a boat, I stand by my statement that it would a poor choice to make for anything even remotely close to being important.


Cheers.

[Alita49DS]

"How about a Lenovo Thinkpad?"

Perfect choice. They last for years. If you are worried about the cost then read up about them and go onto eBay.

I am also a huge fan of the TrackPoint which comes with the ThinkPad. It is better than a Trackpad or a mouse anywhere but especially on a boat. Just take the time to learn how to use it one handed.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

Ok ill bite on this one.....

I'm actually a software engineer by trade with 30+ years experience in the industry. I've used many revisions of the Raspberry Pi and found them lacking in one way or another. I've had much better luck implementing usable working devices (which I would still only recommend for home use!) using the Beagle Bone Black.



Re: Mercedes Benz; that doesn't prove anything. Having code in a repository is proof of absolutely nothing.


The OP asked a question and I answered. I'm sorry your sensibilities are offended by what I said but I stand by my statements.


Cheers.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

"How about a Lenovo Thinkpad?"

Perfect choice. They last for years. If you are worried about the cost then read up about them and go onto eBay.

I am also a huge fan of the TrackPoint which comes with the ThinkPad. It is better than a Trackpad or a mouse anywhere but especially on a boat. Just take the time to learn how to use it one handed.

Yeah, that's another reason I got the Thinkpad........the Trackpoint and Trackpad.

I was tired of all the wires, mice, remotes etc with my other systems, and I thought this one simple unit might be perfect for the boat.

Now after I get it loaded etc I may go ahead and mount my RPi and it's supporting equipment.......or maybe not just use it for backup in the cabin

[Shaneesprit]

Lenovo is the best laptop out there if you want reliability without going to the full Tough Book.
The main thing is to get a HDD you don’t want a Sata disk, if you going to subject it to shock.
Personally I would rather a secondhand beaten up Lenovo compared to most other new laptops, maybe some other laptops have slightly better screens for movies but other than that.

[Capt.Don]

One of the considerations is the software you are going to run on the ship's computer. As much as I hate Windows, with the latest rollout of Windows 10, I think I can live with it by setting metered connections, delaying the updates as long as possible, and uninstalling most (all?) of the crapware. Previously I moved to Windows 8.1 with Open Menu, which was fine.

Panasonic Toughbooks do die. My older CF-53 died earlier this year, while onboard, and I was unable to bring back to life. As far as I could tell, it was either the power-switch (small electronic circuit) or the motherboard. I did try removing all the removable components several times, hoping it would work - it didn't. Now at home, i bought a similar CF-53 on eBay for $111 and swapped memory, SSD, cellular, and wifi boards.

On the point of using other computers -- since I was doing the weather guessing, routing and SSB work with a buddy boat, I borrowed his Dell laptop for about 1 month. It was a newer machine, touchscreen, etc., but did not perform as well as my older Toughbook. I couldn't wait to get the Toughbook back onboard. I like the Toughbook so much, I also bought a newer CF-54, keeping the older one as backup.

Back to the software discussion, the reason I'm staying with Windows is for the supported software. Yes, OpenCPN and qtvlm run on linux; however Winlink Express and a few other programs I use do not. I don't want to get into Windows emulators or virtual machines. For a computer onboard, I want it as generic and simple as possible.

I'm curious, what other software folks are running?
Don

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by thomm225

How about a Lenovo Thinkpad?

I've signed off on the purchase of hundreds of thousands of laptops working in US government and contractors, most recently CSC. We've bought Texas Instruments, Dell, Compaq, HP, IBM/Lenovo, Panasonic, and some specialized items. When I spend my own money I'm buying Lenovo. My main computer is a Lenovo NUC that is 10 years old. My go kit on delivery is a six(ish) year old Lenovo T450S widescreen.

Pictures from last weekend on delivery and in my lab.

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

I’ve found the Microsoft surface to be an excellent laptop onboard.

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

We still have a 2014 Lenovo Yoga 3 touch screen

The surface is a tablet trying to be a laptop. The Yoga is a laptop trying to be a tablet. They don't do anything very well.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I've signed off on the purchase of hundreds of thousands of laptops working in US government and contractors, most recently CSC. We've bought Texas Instruments, Dell, Compaq, HP, IBM/Lenovo, Panasonic, and some specialized items. When I spend my own money I'm buying Lenovo. My main computer is a Lenovo NUC that is 10 years old. My go kit on delivery is a six(ish) year old Lenovo T450S widescreen.

Pictures from last weekend on delivery and in my lab.





The surface is a tablet trying to be a laptop. The Yoga is a laptop trying to be a tablet. They don't do anything very well.

Good info.

Thanks. (and for all the other input as well)

I am spoil a bit though by my 11 year old Toshiba Satellites with its light up keyboard.

It died recently, but I just replaced the HDD and booted it up with a USB Bootable I made and am now reloading Windows so maybe that will be back online soon....

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by RustyBullets

For those of us (well, me!) who are less literate, what is a "suitable VESA mount" and "NUC"?

What 'e said....

Originally Posted by stormalong

A NUC it an Intel "Next Unit of Computing". A very small computer - about 4 X 4 X 2 inches. A VESA mount is the standardise 4 screw pattern that is on the bach of televisions and monitors so that you can use a variety on mounting brackets. The NUC comes with a bracket that screws into a standard 100 MM VESA mount and the NUC can hang in the bracket. I have a NUC but don't care for their VESA mount because it is kept in place by gravity and on a boat it could bounce out.

Can't speak for others, but a real Intel NUC is unlikely to fall out of the mounting bracket. If this a concern though, it's very easy to add a screwed stop.

NUC...


VESA mount...

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

What 'e said....





Can't speak for others, but a real Intel NUC is unlikely to fall out of the mounting bracket. If this a concern though, it's very easy to add a screwed stop.

NUC...


VESA mount...

Interesting. My NUC Vesa mount bracket looks very different from your pictures. My Nuc is about three years old. The bracket consists of some special screws that go into the NUC and a plate with some keyhole shaped holes for the Nuc to rest in. Strictly gravity holding the nuc in the bracket.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I don't want to call you a liar but I'm skeptical about this claim. Would you happen to have any proof? I've tried google but nothing came up making that claim.



The circuits on the stock raspberry pi are not built to withstand poor environmental conditions. Also, at least the early versions - I gave up on using them years ago, had power issues and SD cards would often go bad prematurely.


So, unless you built a case that could handle the environmental (heat / cool / moisture / vibrations) factors of operating on a boat, I stand by my statement that it would a poor choice to make for anything even remotely close to being important.


Cheers.

Dunno about the Merc thing, but I disgree about the RPi not being suitable for an industrial environment. The PCB is coated as well as any industrial board. It's industrial cred lies in the fact that a standard RPi is fanless. Anyone who has ever dealt with computers in severe industrial environments will tell you it is the fans pulling air into the internals that causes the most problems. The greatest weakness of the Pi in a protected marine environment, imo, is the exposed connectors and this is easily fixed with a smear of dielectric grease.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Dunno about the Merc thing, but I disgree about the RPi not being suitable for an industrial environment. The PCB is coated as well as any industrial board. It's industrial cred lies in the fact that a standard RPi is fanless. Anyone who has ever dealt with computers in severe industrial environments will tell you it is the fans pulling air into the internals that causes the most problems. The greatest weakness of the Pi in a protected marine environment, imo, is the exposed connectors and this is easily fixed with a smear of dielectric grease.

I also think any kind of rolling seas / vibrations would also cause the connectors (HDMI, power, network) to come loose as they are flimsy. You would have to find a way to attach them so the cables carry the weight and not the connector on the Pi.


Anyway, I still don't think it's suited for the average Joe on a boat.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sure why you're are saying Windows is a pile of crap.

Btw, I thought you were an 0300 Marine. Where did you learn about computers anyway.....?

What's that? Whatever it is, I don't think I am one. I am a Retired Bosun. Not military. Been messing about with computers since the 286 was the hot new processor and a 20MB HD was a pretty big deal. Floppy disks were still floppy. I even had a TRS-80 pocket computer.