Good Laptop for Onboard?

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by thomm225

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How about a Lenovo Thinkpad?

Is anyone using one of those onboard?

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My apologies if this is already covered; I don't have time to read all the responses, the ones I have not addressing this issue, but giving good ideas.

There is another not-Toughbook which was in great supply but which name escapes me at the moment, from the military, which was entirely bulletproof. Probably difficult to find, now.

However, to the question, NOOOOOO.

I have one and it's a piece of junk for anything other than an extremely sheltered life. I wince every time I open the lid, hoping the twist from using a corner won't shorten the life of the screen.

You can't replace the battery without surgery, and ditto change the ram.

It's our spare for when we go ashore, but that's as far as I'll trust it. Not even considering it for any critical task aboard...

L8R

Skip

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

My apologies if this is already covered; I don't have time to read all the responses, the ones I have not addressing this issue, but giving good ideas.

There is another not-Toughbook which was in great supply but which name escapes me at the moment, from the military, which was entirely bulletproof. Probably difficult to find, now.

However, to the question, NOOOOOO.

I have one and it's a piece of junk for anything other than an extremely sheltered life. I wince every time I open the lid, hoping the twist from using a corner won't shorten the life of the screen.

You can't replace the battery without surgery, and ditto change the ram.

It's our spare for when we go ashore, but that's as far as I'll trust it. Not even considering it for any critical task aboard...

L8R

Skip

Thanks for the info.

I'll see how it goes with the Thinkpad. I got one for $292.00.

As far as surgery to change the battery, I have maybe 20 bored computer techs available to change the battery if I don't want to do it.

So far on this trip I haven't destroyed my HDTV Monitor, but a laptop with battery power might be nice to use in the cockpit.

I went way up a creek yesterday to find a calm anchorage and used my Raspberry Pi/OpenCPN/AIS Chart Plotter to navigate way in past the last channel markers and it worked great!

Since it was calm, I had the 19' HDTV Monitor laying on the settee so I could see it from the cockpit and come in under sail close to may anchorage

Due to low battery power this am, I came out without any electronic navaids but knew the way.

Now all my solar is hooked up so I'm at 12.6 volts with everything running.,

[GrowleyMonster]

WinDOHs is a pile of crap. Why would you want to punish yourself with a has-been insecure problematic OS when you can have Ubuntu, Mint, or any of a hundred different flavors of Linux?


Agree on the toughbook. Fine piece of hardware. I like Dells because they always seem to run Linux very well indeed. I think your RPi and a new monitor would be just fine, actually. Maybe you could set up SSH with GUI access and see and control it from the cockpit with a rooted Android or a Linux tablet. Or get a Samsung Tab-whatever it is now, I used to have a Tab 2 7" and install OCPN on that for use in the cockpit. Stick it in a zip-lock and you are good to go. Use the RPi and a monitor down below for voyage planning, the tablet in the cockpit for course changes, piloting, etc.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

WinDOHs is a pile of crap. Why would you want to punish yourself with a has-been insecure problematic OS when you can have Ubuntu, Mint, or any of a hundred different flavors of Linux?


Agree on the toughbook. Fine piece of hardware. I like Dells because they always seem to run Linux very well indeed. I think your RPi and a new monitor would be just fine, actually. Maybe you could set up SSH with GUI access and see and control it from the cockpit with a rooted Android or a Linux tablet. Or get a Samsung Tab-whatever it is now, I used to have a Tab 2 7" and install OCPN on that for use in the cockpit. Stick it in a zip-lock and you are good to go. Use the RPi and a monitor down below for voyage planning, the tablet in the cockpit for course changes, piloting, etc.

Growley, I myself am reasonably competent technically and have no doubt that I could assemble a system like you propose, but honestly, my simple PC with windows and a few usb connections, plus NMEA connection to B&G...

Well, that keeps me challenged enough. And many, many other cruisers I encounter rely on me to help them figure out how to use a computer system simpler than mine.

So, bottom line, the PC/Linux or RPi/ monitor and SSH with GUI access/rooted Android or a Linux tablet type of set up is more appropriate for a computer hobbyist than most cruisers, sadly speaking. We appreciate your expertise but most of us don't get into it that much, and if I had that much time I'd spend it sailing not fiddling with electronics.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

WinDOHs is a pile of crap. Why would you want to punish yourself with a has-been insecure problematic OS when you can have Ubuntu, Mint, or any of a hundred different flavors of Linux?


Agree on the toughbook. Fine piece of hardware. I like Dells because they always seem to run Linux very well indeed. I think your RPi and a new monitor would be just fine, actually. Maybe you could set up SSH with GUI access and see and control it from the cockpit with a rooted Android or a Linux tablet. Or get a Samsung Tab-whatever it is now, I used to have a Tab 2 7" and install OCPN on that for use in the cockpit. Stick it in a zip-lock and you are good to go. Use the RPi and a monitor down below for voyage planning, the tablet in the cockpit for course changes, piloting, etc.

Not sure why you're are saying Windows is a pile of crap.

Btw, I thought you were an 0300 Marine. Where did you learn about computers anyway.....?

I believe it's the most popular selling OS out there.

I use it everyday and have had zero problems with it......well I have Windows 10 Home Edition at work and Windows 10 Pro on the Thinkpad

The Thinkpad is small (14" screen) and will fit in the cockpit nicely. Since I have a tiller I'm usually up near the hatchway anyway so I'll be in the shade of the dodger many times and the Thinkpad will work out just right and it's battery powered so can stand alone. No wires!

Also it will connect up to my Victron which the RPI doesn't readily do.

I'll still play around with and use the RPi in the cabin, but I think the Lenovo Thinkpad will fit my small boat perfectly.

It came with 8 GB Ram and the CPU runs at 2.5 GHZ and it's a 64 bit system. Rpi has just upgraded to 8 GB Ram and 64 bit but CPU speed is still 1.5 GHZ which is enough but...

After I got my required Computer Tech Certification that is passed both exams, I promised myself a high tech high speed gaming computer but then remembered I'm not a gamer! I'm a part time sailor/cruiser so the Thinkpad was my reward.........and I may get another larger one for home use if I cannot fix my 17" Toshiba Satellite which I bought in 2009. I have a replacement HDD or order for it.

And I still have my charts for when it's rough...

[RedneckRedcoat]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

A raspberry Pi is a hobbyist toy and should not be used in anything more than optimal condition.

Sorry this is just simply not true. Raspberry pi’s are used in many industrial use cases as well as commercial.

In fact if you own any Mercedes car the onboard computer is in fact a raspberry pi. As a software and electronics architect for a fortune 100 company these are built to exactly the same standards as your consumer laptops.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sure why you're are saying Windows is a pile of crap.

I believe it's the most popular selling OS out there.

I use it everyday and have had zero problems with it......well I have Windows 10 Home Edition at work and Windows 10 Pro on the Thinkpad

The Thinkpad is small (14" screen) and will fit in the cockpit nicely. Since I have a tiller I'm usually up near the hatchway anyway so I'll be in the shade of the dodger many times and the Thinkpad will work out just right and it's battery powered so can stand alone. No wires!

Also it will connect up to my Victron which the RPI doesn't readily do.

I'll still play around with and use the RPi in the cabin, but I think the Lenovo Thinkpad will fit my small boat perfectly.

It came with 8 GB Ram and the CPU runs at 2.5 GHZ and it's a 64 bit system. Rpi has just upgraded to 8 GB Ram and 64 bit but CPU speed is still 1.5 GHZ which is enough but...

After I got my required Computer Tech Certification that is passed both exams, I promised myself a high tech high speed gaming computer but then remembered I'm not a gamer! I'm a part time sailor/cruiser so the Thinkpad was my reward.........and I may get another larger one for home use if I cannot fix my 17" Toshiba Satellite which I bought in 2009

And I still have my charts for when it's rough...

Thomm225, Most people who use windows on a PC at work are comfortable with it, or at least they have gotten used to it's idiosyncrasies. For the casual user we only have to look at the nearly universal switch to tablets and phones to understand how hated the PC/Windows experience is. Microsoft OWNED the personal computer business, but when given a chance, nearly everyone jumped ship, They HATE windows.

But I totally agree with Growley, it is crap and MS has just lost the plot. With every new release or update, since 2007 I'd guess, something I used was lost, dropped, or stopped working, every time, the security issues have been horrendous, blue screens of death are considered normal, and everything seems sluggish. I can't tell you haw many times I've booted up a new release and been pounding my fist when I find something I use on a daily basis is no longer there, or has become less usable. Their recent testing regime is a train crash.

And MS is not just tone deaf to the needs of their users, they are actually DEAF. You cannot EVER talk to anyone who would listen about what your needs actually are. I'm sticking with it because I don't want the overhead of doing a new OS, but MS does not deserve the market share they have. They don't.

And take a look at amore recent MS failure: ZOOM. MS bought Skype years ago and promptly screwed it up. And it has a video meeting capability, I've used it many times, but their total lack of attention left the market wide open to ZOOM, and see what happened?

They deserve to fail.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

Sorry this is just simply not true. Raspberry pi’s are used in many industrial use cases as well as commercial.

In fact if you own any Mercedes car the onboard computer is in fact a raspberry pi. As a software and electronics architect for a fortune 100 company these are built to exactly the same standards as your consumer laptops.

I don't want to call you a liar but I'm skeptical about this claim. Would you happen to have any proof? I've tried google but nothing came up making that claim.



The circuits on the stock raspberry pi are not built to withstand poor environmental conditions. Also, at least the early versions - I gave up on using them years ago, had power issues and SD cards would often go bad prematurely.


So, unless you built a case that could handle the environmental (heat / cool / moisture / vibrations) factors of operating on a boat, I stand by my statement that it would a poor choice to make for anything even remotely close to being important.


Cheers.

[Dennisvj]

I had a Lenovo Thinkpad of an earlier vintage, a T420 I think, but it is no longer available. It was awesome! However, I would not recommend their later thinkpad version. I support the other comments about getting a really tough laptop of their recommendations. If you are doing any serious passage-making, I would strongly recommend having a spare set up identically. I also had a docking station velcro-strapped to my nav station, and had used the USBs for linking the laptop to the AIS, Satellite Phone (now I'd use an iridium Go!), SSB (for Sailmail - also now would use iridium Go!) and the chart plotter. I could then create routes on the computer (I used Nobeltec Time Zero Odyssey, but OpenCPN seems to work well) and send them up to the chart plotter. It also sent up all the AIS info to the chart plotter, as well. I also support all the comments related to securing all things moveable. Good luck and fair winds!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Thomm225, Most people who use windows on a PC at work are comfortable with it, or at least they have gotten used to it's idiosyncrasies. For the casual user we only have to look at the nearly universal switch to tablets and phones to understand how hated the PC/Windows experience is. Microsoft OWNED the personal computer business, but when given a chance, nearly everyone jumped ship, They HATE windows.

But I totally agree with Growley, it is crap and MS has just lost the plot. With every new release or update, since 2007 I'd guess, something I used was lost, dropped, or stopped working, every time, the security issues have been horrendous, blue screens of death are considered normal, and everything seems sluggish. I can't tell you haw many times I've booted up a new release and been pounding my fist when I find something I use on a daily basis is no longer there, or has become less usable. Their recent testing regime is a train crash.

And MS is not just tone deaf to the needs of their users, they are actually DEAF. You cannot EVER talk to anyone who would listen about what your needs actually are. I'm sticking with it because I don't want the overhead of doing a new OS, but MS does not deserve the market share they have. They don't.

And take a look at amore recent MS failure: ZOOM. MS bought Skype years ago and promptly screwed it up. And it has a video meeting capability, I've used it many times, but their total lack of attention left the market wide open to ZOOM, and see what happened?

They deserve to fail.

Wow, I must say I have never heard of this....at least as far as your normal user was concerned

We have maybe 175 computers here running either Redhat Linux or Windows 7 or 10.

The software tech's are in process of switching all Windows computers from 7 to 10 but are having problems adopting Windows 10 to our needs on some systems.

In my job, I had no trouble switching from Windows 7 to Windows 10, but I didn't like switching from Microsoft Office 2003 to the latest version, but it ended up being pretty compatible.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Dennisvj

I had a Lenovo Thinkpad of an earlier vintage, a T420 I think, but it is no longer available. It was awesome! However, I would not recommend their later thinkpad version. I support the other comments about getting a really tough laptop of their recommendations. If you are doing any serious passage-making, I would strongly recommend having a spare set up identically. I also had a docking station velcro-strapped to my nav station, and had used the USBs for linking the laptop to the AIS, Satellite Phone (now I'd use an iridium Go!), SSB (for Sailmail - also now would use iridium Go!) and the chart plotter. I could then create routes on the computer (I used Nobeltec Time Zero Odyssey, but OpenCPN seems to work well) and send them up to the chart plotter. It also sent up all the AIS info to the chart plotter, as well. I also support all the comments related to securing all things moveable. Good luck and fair winds!

The Thinkpad I got was the T430.

I'm not doing serious passage making at this time.

I sail locally with 100 miles of my marina and could sail with just my charts or nothing most of the time since I know the waters but I do like AIS because of all the ships. They can sneak up on you if you are not watching........

I like the open plotter I built with the RPI, OpenCPN, and my SH GX2200 especially for navigating in close up a creek for a calm anchorage especially when you get in passed all the channel markers

I'm basically in test mode for future cruising ..........

[dannc]

I see the OP bought a Thinkpad but I will through this out anyway.

I have been using Thinkpads for decades. Thinkpads is a brand name though, so one has to pay attention to the model line since they are not all the same. I have used T, P, and W models, for what seems like forever, both at home and work with only a few problems. The major issues was on a T series system that I had at work and we had at least one at home. This particular model would develop a problem with the power plug on the back of the system. Our home system was affected as was my work system. However, this problem was on other laptop brands as well as Lenovo. Obviously, the different PC companies were sourcing the same part. This was a T series from at least a decade ago so I would not apply this problem to new systems.

My current Thinkpad is well over five years old and I had to replace the fan, but other than that, it has been flawless. Lenovo has been having some huge discounts lately but I can't justify a new system since mine is working just fine. Especially since I updated to a new SSD. The old SSD was running out of space, and I think starting to have write failures, so it was replacement time.

One of the family Thinkpads had a screen problem so we replaced it. That laptop was well over five years old before the problem happened.

My work laptops are replaced after 3 years while our home systems are used until they become functionally obsolete. We literally have stacks of old Thinkpads and we have given more to local schools. I think I have listed all of the hardware failures, which is three. None of them were failures that made the system unusable. They were just a nit that had to be dealt with.

We have bought used Thinkpads and gotten lucky in that the systems had NEVER been issued. Images for a large company had been installed but the systems had never been issued so they were basically older systems that had never been used. Not sure how one gets that lucky but it was nice.

Later,
Dan

[Prairie 36]

Have several Thinkpads, one which is over 20 yrs old which still runs well (can't bare to get rid of it), another one which is 16 yrs old which I still use time to time since it runs apps that won't run on Win10. Both of these laptops were used while living aboard and cruising for 5 years. I had a secure location for them and used a display in my nav station with bluetooth keyboard and mouse. You can now see a little discoloration in the receptacles, but all still work well. To me the Thinkpad is the best and most rugged laptop around. At home I have been using a T410 since 2011. Installed a ssd a few years ago and it runs like a top.

[RustyBullets]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

A raspberry Pi a "hobbiest toy"?? Blasphemy!


Back on topic, If you're going to let stuff launch itself inside your cabin then a ToughBook is the biz. Mine survived a couple of hours sitting in brackish water and after 4 years, it still worked and had the most ugly corroded motherboard I've ever seen on something still functional. I only replaced the motherboard because an SMD fell off it that corroded through and prevented the battery from charging.

Having said that, if you mount a monitor to a bulkhead with a suitable VESA mount, it should stay put. If you use a NUC (which I've recommended a few times in different threads) it comes with a steel bracket that lets it be anchored down to the bulkhead as well.

Call it overkill, but on my boat I have a laptop, NUC, ToughBook and Raspberry Pi. Each serves a purpose. The NUC is my fav.

For those of us (well, me!) who are less literate, what is a "suitable VESA mount" and "NUC"?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by dannc

I see the OP bought a Thinkpad but I will through this out anyway.

I have been using Thinkpads for decades. Thinkpads is a brand name though, so one has to pay attention to the model line since they are not all the same. I have used T, P, and W models, for what seems like forever, both at home and work with only a few problems. The major issues was on a T series system that I had at work and we had at least one at home. This particular model would develop a problem with the power plug on the back of the system. Our home system was affected as was my work system. However, this problem was on other laptop brands as well as Lenovo. Obviously, the different PC companies were sourcing the same part. This was a T series from at least a decade ago so I would not apply this problem to new systems.

My current Thinkpad is well over five years old and I had to replace the fan, but other than that, it has been flawless. Lenovo has been having some huge discounts lately but I can't justify a new system since mine is working just fine. Especially since I updated to a new SSD. The old SSD was running out of space, and I think starting to have write failures, so it was replacement time.

One of the family Thinkpads had a screen problem so we replaced it. That laptop was well over five years old before the problem happened.

My work laptops are replaced after 3 years while our home systems are used until they become functionally obsolete. We literally have stacks of old Thinkpads and we have given more to local schools. I think I have listed all of the hardware failures, which is three. None of them were failures that made the system unusable. They were just a nit that had to be dealt with.

We have bought used Thinkpads and gotten lucky in that the systems had NEVER been issued. Images for a large company had been installed but the systems had never been issued so they were basically older systems that had never been used. Not sure how one gets that lucky but it was nice.

Later,
Dan

Thanks.

Good information to know.

We had a couple here my old company sent us. I never used them the whole 5 years as I had a tower and monitor, but when I was checking them to make sure the drives had been wiped before I sent them back I liked the way the looked and felt so I was thinking one might work great on my boat.

And bought the T430......