Furuno NavNet 3D Crashes?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I wonder if it still exists in the TZ software. I would guess that the base software is the same, with *just* <grin> the GUI changed.

A memory leak can be tricky to track down - after all, this crashes the system only after a long time of a lot of repetitions, so the leak could be quite small. Still, agreed this could have and should have been fixed a long time ago. And the N2K stack should have been cleaned up. And ...

It is easily reproducible and repeatable. No excuse for not fixing. Hay, its only code.

[CarinaPDX]

On the FurunoUSA forum I just learned two things:

first, the new, improved (version 6) of the world-wide tide chart doesn't work due to a bug in NN3D. There is a link to the same version, but named version 1 externally and internally, that will work. If you install v6 it won't work but there will be no indication.

second, this will be fixed in the next version of the NN3D software, due out around the end of August. So we have something to look forward to.

[svtaipan]

We installed the Navnet 3D MFD 8 in November 2010. Ever since instalation we have had obscure "issues" Freezing when trying to load charts, sudden shutdowns without any message, strange lines and patches on the charts, and sundry small and irritating malfunctions.
A couple of days ago the unit froze and a yellow box on the screen said " blah blah..."native Exception Error....blah etc Black Box....blah..... " at the bottom of the screen a red strip appeared with a notice "HDD WARNING. CONSULT DEALER".... it was night and we were aproaching a strange port in a new country ....The unit would not shut down and we had to disconnect the power and it took three attempts to get it running again. It froze and had to be turned off twice more in the space of the next 2 hours. We didnt see the error boxes again.
I contacted my dealer dealer. He told me I probably need a new HDD!
Any one have any better ideas???
I am totaly disgusted with this equipment.
We had a FURUNO Radar for 20 years and it was an excellent peice of equipment so we went for FURUNO again.
BIG EXPENSIVE MISTAKE

[CarinaPDX]

It sounds like there was a hard drive problem from the beginning. I don't see that there is any reason to be so angry with Furuno - any manufacturer can ship products with intermittent (i.e. not easily reproduced) problems. The sad truth is that hard drives suffer from a fairly high failure rate - I replace my laptop's drive every couple of years as a preventive measure.

Modern chartplotters are very complex devices. They are essentially specially purposed general computers. In the case of the Furuno NN3D MFD they are Windows CE computers, complete with hard drives. The good news is that this allows the MFDs to hold a huge amount of chart data and satellite photography internally with very fast access - that fast access is part of the magic behind its fast zooming and scrolling. The bad news is that hard drives do suffer failures, as do all parts of a computer but at a higher rate.

The obvious next step is to get the MFD back to Furuno for repair. I hope it is still under warranty, but in any event it shouldn't be a big deal as the drives are small (40 or 80GB) and shouldn't cost a lot.

BTW it seems the reason that Furuno went with Windows is that they could use a lot of the MaxSea software to get an advanced system to market quickly. Until recently they were well ahead of the competition as a result.

If you were stuck entering an unfamiliar harbor with only the malfunctioning MFD to guide you then you should be more angry at yourself than Furuno. Such reliance on a single navigational device is bound to bite in the behind. At a minimum you should have OpenCPN on a laptop as a backup. Many cruisers still insist on paper charts as the ultimate backup. One alternative is to print the minimum necessary charts from the computer before leaving port. Handheld GPS units are another alternative. But cruising with a single source, if that is what you did, is pretty risky.

'Sorry for the problem, and definitely not trying to kick you while down. Furuno repair is probably your only answer. (The hard drives will not be readily available, and just installing a new blank drive might not do the trick.) BTW the operating system is in flash memory - the hard drive holds the chart data and any data the user has created (waypoints, tracks, settings).

Fair winds,

Greg

[svtaipan]

I didn't post to this site to receive a lecture. I just wanted to find out whether other Navnet 3D MFD's have had this problem and have found a solution, other than replacing the HDD.
I dont recall saying I was "stuck". We have two computers running OPEN CPN and we have a Garmin GPS. We also have paper charts and a small hand held GPS. We don't have a spare Radar or AIS.
We have cruised for eleven years and have traveled in excess of 100,000 sea miles with these devices and had rarely had a problem except for the windows hang ups.
I feel very dissatisfied with the Furuno because we purchased it in good faith expecting to have a sound marine grade piece of equipment. I have made several attempts to get satisfactory help from FURUNO with the various problems.
They did finally agree that the Navionics DERIVED Map Media charts I purchased were unsatisfactory and unusable for navigation in many parts of ASIA . They supplied CMap replacements for which I was very grateful.
My unit will be out of warranty and I will have to take it back to Australia for repairs. Inconvenient and expensive.
Maybe the problem would be fixed by turning off the tides currents overlay as suggested in the second post on this site, but without surety of that we can only replace the HDD and HOPE it dosn't happen again.
BTW laptop hard drive replacement is not the issue here and certainly not even comparable price wise.

[twistedtree]

Definitely turn off the tides and current layer. I found that it's even a noted known-problem in their release notes. The annoying thing is that 2.07 has been out for over a year with this known problem and its still not fixed.

Most of my crashes where also while loading/updating charts. I have since turned off the tides and currents and not seen further crashes, but I would not say it's a conclusive fix since I have very little run time on the system since making that change, and I have not loaded any charts.

I'm looking at outfitting a new boat now and facing selection of electronics. The question I've been asking myself is whether anyone else is any better?

My past experience with Raymarine is that their stuff is even more flakey, and their support is either really good or really bad. So for me, they are out.

I've heard almost all good things about Garmin, but looking at their stuff at the Ft Lauderdale Boat Show, I see that Garmin is the only source for charts. To me, this is not OK outside the US. In the US it doesn't really matter since everyone's charts are based off the NOAA raster and vector charts which are excellent. But everywhere else the source data is varied, and in my limited experience in Canada, you can be completely screwed if you are limited to a single vendor's charts. This is one of the things I like about Furuno - you can use the NOAA charts, Navionics, C-Map, or standard HO-57. Wherever you are, you can pick the best of breed. Making that pick can be a crap-shoot as I found in Canada, but at least there is a choice. So because of charts, I have a hard time taking Garmin seriously. If I were only navigating in the US I'd feel differently, but I'm going world-wide.

Simrad is a possibility, but I haven't looked into them enough to really have an opinion. That said, I think they are a distant 4th behind Raymarine, Garmin, and Furuno, and I've never felt it wise to go with the back of the pack unless they have some killer advantage.

So right now I'm still thinking Furuno is the best of them. But they will have to resolve the issue I have with a broken C-map chart that forced me to buy the equivalent Navionics chart. So far no fix, no refund, and no credit for the broken chart after nearly 6 months. If that doesn't get resolved soon, then they are dead to me.

[Morrissey]

Hmm, wish I had found this thread earlier! I bought a Simrad NSS8 for my flybridge, with the intention of installing a Simrad autopilot. Then I got scared of the Simrad AP, they aren't the same quality as they used to be.

As my main nav is Odyssey Time Zero on a Windows 7 PC/24" LCD I decided to add a Furuno MFD 12 for the flybrdige, and a Furuno autopilot for ease of integration. Install and calibration were fairly simple, once the cable runs were done of course. I might sell the Simrad, or alternative just use it on my 14' RIB tender with a depth transducer as well, although that is perhaps a little extravagant its now a sunk cost.

Since Furuno install I haven't used the system much as I went onto hardstand getting a major systems refit done. Replacing leaking fuel tanks, and re-power at the same time plus some other stuff....

But I did have one freeze on the MFD 12 which I thought odd. I'll dig deeper into that in the new year when I'm back in the water, but at least now I know to turn the tides and currents off on the MFD 12. I'll still have them on the PC which is good. Mostly I wanted to post to ensure I kept up with this thread. I, too, hope that Furuno gets their eye back on the total product lineup.

[CarinaPDX]

Furuno is supposed to have a new version of the firmware out this month - to be safe say by the end of the year. So download when it comes out and put it on an SD card for when you go back to the boat. We are all hoping that it will include a fix for the infamous tide/current bug.

Greg

[svtaipan]

For the interest of readers of this thread with the FURUNO MFD CRASH problem
This quote was received from my Australian dealer for the replacement part for the MFD 8
The unit is 26 months old!

"Approx cost of the HDD RRP is $850.00 ex GST

Part Number:
00107448000
80GB HDD UPGRADE KIT
MFD-NA-1 80GB
MFD8/12-E"

[CarinaPDX]

OK, now you have my sympathy: that is an absurd price. They should be ashamed. For that much money I would track down a blank drive and see if it formats.

That's the kind of thing that could lose them a lot of customers.

Greg

[twistedtree]

Yes, if it's out of warranty I too would probably swap the drive myself.

Better yet, put in an SSD (solid state drive). No moving parts, lower power draw, less susceptible to physical shock damage, and faster. It's a great application for a device like an MFD that doesn't require huge capacity.

[Paul L]

For that price I would sure try the fix for crashes that has worked for me and others. Turn the tides and currents overlay off when not using them. If you want to test it you can zoom in close with t and c on so you can see one or two tide stations. Leave tbe display for30 mins or so. Then quickly zoom way out so you might see hundreds of t and c stations. This usually kills the system.

[twistedtree]

I think his hard drive issue is independent from, and in addition to the tides/current crash issue.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

I think his hard drive issue is independent from, and in addition to the tides/current crash issue.

Quite possible, but since the t&c issue appears to be a memory corruption/deref zero pointer/or similar, it can show up with lots of different fatal error messages. I'd rule out the know issues first, before divining new ones.

[Morrissey]

Old thread, but curious if anyone has persisted with NN3D. My MFD 12 is now 4.5 years old. I needed a hard drive replacement (under warranty) early on as it crashed/would not allow loading new charts. Since then it has worked fine, although I don't like it: I prefer to use the PC with TZ Navigator on it. Still, the MFD 12 has been working fine, and delivering radar to the PC.

Until today. I turned the NN3D off after anchoring for lunch, and it would not reboot afterwards. It would get halfway (bar across bottom) then start to reboot again. When anchored for the night I grabbed a beer, and was about to remove the MFD 12 for a look inside. But i decided to give it one more try. It booted up first time. WTF? I'm running v2.11 on it and have the tides and currents off, still.

I would have expected a Furuno product to last longer. But I am considering replacing it before my 5 month cruise starting in May. Has anyone else had a reboot issue?