Free webinar about electronics and communications for cruisers

[sanibel sailor]

Signed up.
Thanks for moving the time, sure works better for me.
I don't see AIS on the agenda. I assume it will be discussed as well.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

Signed up.
Thanks for moving the time, sure works better for me.
I don't see AIS on the agenda. I assume it will be discussed as well.

Yep. AIS is VHF.

[ka4wja]

Dave,
This is great....sorry, I'm coming in late here...
I will have a look at Youtube later (or maybe will be able to tune in today?)

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I'm presenting a free webinar that is an overview of electronics and communications for cruising boats. The webinar is part of a series sponsored by a yacht broker. We're not selling anything. We are cruisers helping cruisers who are hunkered down in these challenging times.

I am a degreed naval architect and marine engineer with a great deal of experience in communications and other electronics. I've been a comms guy longer than a sailor. I left corporate work and now deliver boats, install and service electronics, and do yacht management from an Annapolis base. I have spoken on a range of topics and have been published in most of the major national magazines.

Agenda

Electronics
- Architecture
- Navigation
- Instrumentation
-- External
-- Internal
Communication
- Short range
-- WiFi
-- Cellular
-- VHF
Long range
- HF/SSB Radio
- Satellite Phone
Weather
Integration

There will be Q&A during the webinar and follow-up available by email.

Date: Wednesday 13 May 2p-4p (1400-1600) US ET

The meeting link isn't up yet but will be at https://www.davidwaltersyachts.com/sailing-events and I'll post it here.

This announcement has been approved by Cruisers Forum. Their support getting the word out is appreciated.

Dave, et al,

This is a nice idea and I want to extend my thanks to you (and your host) for taking on what can be a daunting task! (not the least of which is due to the vast amount of info / variations to cover, in such a short period of time)

I thought about sending you an email with my thoughts, but realized that would be a bit arrogant....so, then thought that maybe I could be so bold as to offer a couple quick minor suggestions here in public? [ Some ego, huh? ]


When discussing marine electronics for offshore cruising in general, and specifically electronic navigation, I always suggest prefacing the overall discussion with a few non-electronic "facts of life", and one unfortunately often overlooked electrical fact-of-life...and I hope you all will remember these quick facts, and then "go-for-it"!

1) Non-Electronic:

a) Keep the water on the outside of the boat (meaning the hull integrity, hull/deck joint, keel and rudder attachments, hatches / portlights, thru-hulls, etc., are the primary concern)

b) Keep the mast pointing somewhere skyward, with some sort of sail cloth attached (meaning the mast, rigging, sails, sail controls / winches, etc. are a tied for second place)

b) Keep the boat pointed in a direction somewhat towards land, or preferably towards your intended destination (meaning the rudder, steering systems, and accurate steering compass, along with at least a time piece of some sort and hopefully some type of paper chart, all tie for second place)

If you can accomplish those basic things (usually aided by at least watching the sky, and using some basic weather knowledge), your boat should be fine and arrive at (or close to) your destination, no matter what electronics you may have, or not have, operational.

d) Next up are, of course, having enough water / food / shelter for the crew....if you can accomplish this, then your boat AND you / your crew will make it fine...


{sorry, if it sounds like I'm anti-tech....please be aware I'm not! I've made a living in hi-tech/electronics/communications, and have a full suite of electronics/communications equipment on-board, including multiple MF/HF-DSC radios, wefax, satphone, multiple chartplotters/MFD's, radar, VHF-DSC-FM radios, AIS transponder, handheld VHF's, handheld GPS's, portable SW radio, timepieces, barometer, etc., etc. (even have my sextant / almanac...opps, that's not electronic!)...I just strive to remind everyone that it's the boat (and the crew) that will get you across an ocean, etc. }


2) A few Electrical / Electronic Facts-of-Life:

a) In regards to marine electronics, the oft overlooked fact is that they take electricity to run!

Well, yeah it's obvious [duh!]....and modern electronics are remarkably energy efficient when taking into account the impressive computing power they posses....but, all too often many cruisers forget why the old adages are true. [ "Your energy consumed will expand to equal the energy you have available"....sort of like, "you'll spend the money you have" ]

Bottom line when it comes to marine electronics, you must have some electricity to make 'em work....and the more electronics you install and use, the more electricity you will need on board...

Now-a-days, with solar array prices as low as they are, and panel efficiencies vastly improved, this is not too difficult to accomplish.....{although the costs of well-made panels that will last more than a few years, aren't cheap, they are available....I still remember back in the day when a 55watt Shell or Siemens was about 8 to 10 sq ft, and cost close to $1000!...so, today with a 365 watt Sunpower panel being 50% - 60% larger, and costing just a couple hundred more, but making SEVEN times the power! Well, the times they are a changing! }

Just saying that no matter how slick of a marine electronics suite you install, it's got to get some juice to work....so, be sure to factor a decent solar array, etc. into both the money budget and the space-on-board budget!



b) And, finally (for those of you watching Dave's Webinar) please be sure to remember the vast difference between broadcast communications / radio (such as MF/HF-DSC-SSB, and VHF-DSC-FM) versus point-to-point communications (such as satphones or sat comm terminals, cellular/mobile phones).....and the reasons that they are not competing systems / competing technologies, but rather can compliment each other, assuming budget permits.



3) Oh, and one last point....
I agree with Dave here 100%....

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... I prefer...<snip>... and a solid shortwave radio such as the Tecsun PL-880 for weather fax. I'm not a particular fan of gribs. I have pictures in my presentation. I'll take gribs if I have no choice but synoptic charts are so much better that I've added a radio and cable and software to my delivery go-kit.

I just wish more sailors/cruisers were aware that our synoptic weather charts (from WeFax, etc.) are drawn by seasoned/experienced marine meteorologists, who in addition to their personal knowledge / expertise, historical data/info, also use a vast array of data....such as upper level wind/pressure data, balloon data, ship and aircraft reports, multiple satellite data / satellite radar, coastal radar, multiple computer models (as well as typically multiple model runs), etc. etc....compared to the typical cruiser using a GRIB chart, which is the raw computer model data (no human forecaster intervention), and typically only attaining one model's data...

This doesn't mean that GRIB's are somehow evil...(and in some areas, such as the Southern Ocean, etc., where decent offshore weather forecasts are few, a few GRIB charts are a great resource)... Just that for most cruisers there are reasons that they are not as good as other weather info / forecasts...

BTW, in the past month or so, I've heard a wonderful little adage repeated over and over again by doctors and epidemiologists, on TV News programs....and while this is being used to describe virus outbreak / death projections, it applies well to offshore marine weather, too!

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."



Okay, that's all I got to add here....

Fair winds and good luck!

John

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Dave,
This is great....sorry, I'm coming in late here...

John my friend your contributions are never too late. I'll also point out that really good capability is not arrogance - it's smart. *grin* I do hope you can join. Frankly people learn a tremendous amount when people like you and I think we disagree until we can figure out what assumptions differ.

I hope you are well. I don't write often but I quite often think of you when tackling a problem. "What would John do?" *grin*

Regardless I will write soon.

sail fast and eat well, dave

[ka4wja]

Dave (and Josh, and David Walters Yachts),
Thanks!
You did a super job!


Fyi, a couple quick links to help with some questions that came up...

1) Weather Fax:
US NWS/NOAA Marine Weather Home Page (which has links for many worldwide marine weather sources...including lots of details on US-based weather sources, like WeFax, etc...)
https://www.weather.gov/marine/
https://www.weather.gov/marine/uscg_broadcasts
https://www.weather.gov/marine/radiofax_charts
https://www.weather.gov/marine/gmdss

Worldwide WeFax Stations/Schedules
https://www.weather.gov/media/marine/rfax.pdf



2) Lightning:
Lightning Protection (which is mostly about protecting the humans on-board and directing most of the lightning energy to the water, versus your on-board electronics), you can find the info in old Motorola and Telco (AT&T) radio tower site protection, as well as boat-specific info at About MLP (the founder, Dr. Ewen Thomson, did some of the definitive research when at the Univ of Florida Lightning research center)



3) "Marine SSB" (Marine MF/HF-DSC-SSB Radio):

Have a look at Youtube Playlists...
https://www.youtube.com/user/captain...able_polymer=1

And, of course these stickies above...
Marine SSB Stuff (how-to better use / proeprly-install SSB, & troubleshoot RFI, etc.)
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...tc-133496.html



HF-SSB Radio, Proper Installation Tips/Techniques, etc.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...tc-198305.html


And, the USCG comms pages...
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=cgcommsCall




Fair winds to all....and again, a big thanks to Dave!

John

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Dave (and Josh, and David Walters Yachts),
Thanks!
You did a super job!

Very kind of you to say John.

I'd add to your list of resources Frank Singleton's excellent material Frank Singleton's Weather and Sailing Pages - Franks-Weather - The Weather Window

[Auspicious]

A little more time to give a considered response to John.

First, my thanks for John sitting in and doing yeoman work during my webinar to post links I referred to it. His time and effort made the session better for everyone.

Originally Posted by ka4wja

I always suggest prefacing the overall discussion with a few non-electronic "facts of life", and one unfortunately often overlooked electrical fact-of-life...and I hope you all will remember these quick facts, and then "go-for-it"!

I agree with John here. There just wasn't time.

The topic goes to my own "boat rules."

1. Keep the boat in the water. Go sailing. Use your boat. In addition to being fun it makes you ask smarter questions and make better decisions about investments in your boat.

2. Keep the water out of the boat. This is John's hull integrity priority.

3. Stay on the boat. Don't fall in. Don't hurt yourself.

Originally Posted by ka4wja

Just saying that no matter how slick of a marine electronics suite you install, it's got to get some juice to work....so, be sure to factor a decent solar array, etc. into both the money budget and the space-on-board budget!

Agreed.

As we discussed a bit last night, decisions and choices are interrelated. The point about having to get energy you use back into the batteries. So many times I have seen people spend a lot of money on lithium batteries without taking appropriate measures to size alternator(s) and battery chargers. Yes, more money but why spend money on expensive batteries if you aren't configured to keep them healthy?

Originally Posted by ka4wja

please be sure to remember the vast difference between broadcast communications / radio (such as MF/HF-DSC-SSB, and VHF-DSC-FM) versus point-to-point communications (such as satphones or sat comm terminals, cellular/mobile phones).....and the reasons that they are not competing systems / competing technologies, but rather can compliment each other, assuming budget permits.

Spot on with our discussion of one-to-one, one-to-many, and many-to-many communication modalities. *grin*

Originally Posted by ka4wja

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."

Which is why marine meteorologists use ensembles in making forecasts. Looking at the effects of slightly different input data on the output, called sensitivity analysis exposes the impact of errors in data and model shortfalls. Add to that external corrections (e.g. VOS contributions) that correct the model output for real world values. All contribute to synoptic charts being so very much better than gribs.

Near and dear to John's and my hearts are propagation models for HF/SSB. We know they're wrong but they are close enough ("useful") to support ready communication around the world.

Models are incredibly important to the development of science, even when they are off a bit. *grin*

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

All contribute to synoptic charts being so very much better than gribs.

If that's so then how come they are so similar with wfax synoptics and gfs gribs displayed simultaneously in opencpn? Grib gusts clearly show the fronts. Many days ahead they will be in sync, after 4 or 5 it falls apart a bit anyway so who knows. Done this a lot over morning coffee, very consistent.
Do you have empirical data to back up your claim? Though in fairness that's such a massive task for an individual seems doubtful anyone could. Saying that, offshore wfax is great, big picture for free , add gribs for accuracy then best of both worlds. Just think you're being biased by too hard on the latest GFS model and can't back that any data .

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by conachair

If that's so then how come they are so similar with wfax synoptics and gfs gribs displayed simultaneously in opencpn?

Sure. In the webinar last night I showed side-by-side GFS grib product and NOAA synoptic wind and wave forecasts that were very different for the same time. Look at the synoptic and all kinds of things we care about--fronts, lows, trofs--where smoothed over. In my example, hurricane Danielle is smoothed over by the gribs. The GFS model, like most, assumes the second derivative of barometric pressure over an X-Y plane is continuous. It isn't, and it isn't at fronts and large changes in pressure.

Remember we have VOS data for ground truth in current surface analysis on synoptics.

Also note that wind changes not only speed but direction at fronts and the grib product is poor at reflecting that.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Sure. In the webinar last night I showed side-by-side GFS grib product and NOAA synoptic wind and wave forecasts that were very different for the same time..

Youtube link?
Where did you get the actual wind data from to check which did better?
Not an easy task, I've scripted some python before for UK met office forecasts on Scillies (10m weather station on an island), forecast data was surprisingly accurate even 4 or 5 days out. Easy to see wind shifts & gusts as a front goes through.
Your data would be very interesting to see, ta.

http://prettygoats.com/scilly-wind/

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by conachair

Youtube link?
Where did you get the actual wind data from to check which did better?

Josh hasn't posted the recording to YouTube yet. I'll nudge him.

Actual wind data came from a number of sources, firstly VOS https://www.vos.noaa.gov/ and then hurricane hunters. The comparison is a little in your face as it shows gribs smoothing over hurricane Danielle (25 Aug 2010) as well as a bunch of cold fronts and a deep but concentrated Low over the eastern Atlantic.

The underlying issue as I understand it from discussions with the people who run the GFS project at NOAA/OPC here in the US is that there are numerical assumptions baked into the models so that the math can be solved in time for forecasts vice retrospectives. One is that the second derivative of barometric pressure over an X-Y plane is continuous. It isn't. It's close enough but is why gribs don't show cold fronts with associated wind shifts and spot artifacts. We're all dealing with the same math so UKMET and DWD models suffer the same shortfalls. Synoptic charts are built by professional meteorologists based on model data, ensembles, overhead imagery, corrected based on real world measurements (weather balloons, ships, aircraft, ground stations) and draw in the things we care about.

NOAA/OPC are working on a grib product that has meteorologist value-added. Some of the runs are available on an experimental basis but it isn't in production yet. They are trying not to break existing grib viewers but that may not be possible.

In the meantime SIRIUS/XM marine weather has a proprietary grib product in their service area that does show corrected winds with L, H, fronts, trofs, and ridges.

Synoptic chart over weather fax from the US, UK, Germany, etc is still the gold standard.

[RhythmDoctor]

Hi Dave, thanks so much for the great webinar last week. It was a tour de force that brought together many additional real world elements that intersect with the electronics. It was a real service to the sailing community.

Could you please share the call in information for the virtual happy hours?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor

Could you please share the call in information for the virtual happy hours?

The link seems to have dissolved. Message out to the host.

[Jackz]

Is there a recording of this on YouTube or elsewhere?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Jackz

Is there a recording of this on YouTube or elsewhere?

It's coming. Not in my direct control but I'm nagging.