Fixed VHF Marine Radio or just Handheld?

[team karst]

no more bashing VHF; anyone here use MF AM with full carrier? I'm too young.

I know you had to get a guy over, just to connect to an antenna. I think a RF ammeter was required. I've got some mid-70's radio gear, but never had to tune a vertical with an ammeter.
/

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

But in most places the VHF is much better and usually faster to alert boats that are monitoring nearby......

An easier way is to alert ( by whatever method ) your local coast guard radio and they can issue a DSC alert.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

An easier way is to alert ( by whatever method ) your local coast guard radio and they can issue a DSC alert.

Not sure how you come up with some of the things you do.

You are thinking (in your mind) that a two step process is better than an immediate call on VHF.

That is simply the wrong approach within 15-20 miles of shore.

Sorry you are wrong again.......

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sure how you come up with some of the things you do.



You are thinking (in your mind) that a two step process is better than an immediate call on VHF.



That is simply the wrong approach within 15-20 miles of shore.



Sorry you are wrong again.......

My point based on my 10 years tenure in small boAt SAR is as follows

Use any appropriate communications method that reaches the local mrcc. If that’s a mobile that’s fine as long as you have a number for your local Mrcc programmed into it.
If in trouble contact them. Let them decide what to do next. Not you.

Hence a mobile call ( or a sat phone call) to the mrcc is very effective way of initiating a distress process

A DSC distress alert initiated by a mrcc offers thd best method of contacting the most radios these days. The mrcc will be aware of more potential rescue assets then you will. It’s radio system is designed to cover the designated sea area under its mandate

My experience is directly based on liaison with SAR authorities when I was chairman of a RNLI lifeboat station for many years and in post rescue debriefing of accidents.

These days vhf communications is not the most reliable or effective way to initiate a distress slert. A fsct that GMDSS implicitly acknowledges , note notwithstanding that vhf is a useful on board communications medium and should be carried and used where appropriate take time to learn how to send and initiate vhf distress alerts etc.

Im not wrong just bssed on what I know from direct experience and contact with radio operators and SAR personnel and debriefs fron major SAR incidents.

GMDSS moves the point of control away from you to a designated mrcc for sar processes. Therefore the key is to be able to contact the appropriate Mrcc not other boats in fact.

The guiding principle behind GMDSS is the distress alerts must reach the shore station not other boats. Hence configure your equipment according to that Maxim ( you’re supposed to carry two independent means of reaching the shore )
We need to move away from thd old 1912 SOLas rescue thinking

GMDSS moves the responsibility away from other boats around you to respond and transfer that responsibility to the control mrcc for the sea area. Hence your emergency on board communications strategy should be orientated to contacting your local mrcc not other ships.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My point based on my 10 years tenure in small boAt SAR is as follows

Use any appropriate communications method that reaches the local mrcc. If that’s a mobile that’s fine as long as you have a number for your local Mrcc programmed into it.
If in trouble contact them. Let them decide what to do next. Not you.

Hence a mobile call ( or a sat phone call) to the mrcc is very effective way of initiating a distress process

A DSC distress alert initiated by a mrcc offers thd best method of contacting the most radios these days. The mrcc will be aware of more potential rescue assets then you will. It’s radio system is designed to cover the designated sea area under its mandate

My experience is directly based on liaison with SAR authorities when I was chairman of a RNLI lifeboat station for many years and in post rescue debriefing of accidents.

These days vhf communications is not the most reliable or effective way to initiate a distress slert. A fsct that GMDSS implicitly acknowledges , note notwithstanding that vhf is a useful on board communications medium and should be carried and used where appropriate take time to learn how to send and initiate vhf distress alerts etc.

Im not wrong just bssed on what I know from direct experience and contact with radio operators and SAR personnel and debriefs fron major SAR incidents.

GMDSS moves the point of control away from you to a designated mrcc for sar processes. Therefore the key is to be able to contact the appropriate Mrcc not other boats in fact.

The guiding principle behind GMDSS is the distress alerts must reach the shore station not other boats. Hence configure your equipment according to that Maxim ( you’re supposed to carry two independent means of reaching the shore )
We need to move away from thd old 1912 SOLas rescue thinking

GMDSS moves the responsibility away from other boats around you to respond and transfer that responsibility to the control mrcc for the sea area. Hence your emergency on board communications strategy should be orientated to contacting your local mrcc not other ships.

Whatever. You are still wrong.

When you are 15-20 miles from shore first put out a message on VHF then go from there.

(I would do that first at any distance from shore hoping someone close might hear then go from there with Sat Phone etc)

Try to remember that and then you will have learned at least something.

Wrong is wrong no matter how many paragraphs you write to cover up your mistake.....

[rslifkin]

I'm with Thomm on this one. Your goal is to contact the coast guard. But if someone else happens to be close and able to assist, there's a good chance they'll chime in with "we're 3 miles away and changing course now". At which point the coast guard will likely exchange information with that boat, knowing that they'll arrive before a coast guard resource does.

[s/v Jedi]

Well when your installation is a mess then sure use the phone. When your installation is done properly (antenna system, DSC functional, receiving positioning data etc.) then the first thing you do is press that distress button.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by team karst

no more bashing VHF; anyone here use MF AM with full carrier? I'm too young.

I know you had to get a guy over, just to connect to an antenna. I think a RF ammeter was required. I've got some mid-70's radio gear, but never had to tune a vertical with an ammeter.
/

I think it's an interesting question. The MF AM full carrier era ran from about 1930 to the 1960s. The VHF channels were authorized in 1946, but MF remained popular mainly due to the lower cost of transmitters. Making 25 watts at 156 MHz was expensive in the 1950s. Making AM power at 2182 khz was possible with simple and inexpensive vacuum-tube electronics and early power transistors.

The history and culture around 2182, for whatever they are worth, are now being lost to human memory. I'm not sure many people care, but it was surely part of the experience of being on the water in that era.

Most of the radio culture we have today can be traced back to the SCR-536 handheld radios used by Allied forces in WWII. They operated on 3500-6000 khz with under one watt of transmit power. Around the same time the SCR-300 backpack radio, 30 pounds, would make 0.3 watts at 40-49 MHz, FM. Higher powered radios typically had a separate transmit unit in a remote location separate from the control head.

Being able to buy a small, self-contained, waterproof, reliable, 25 watt FM VHF transmitter that uses less than a watt of DC on standby, and has all the marine channels, for under $200, is an underappreciated technological achievement brought about by a better understanding of solid-state physics, advances in power conversion and amplifier technology, and microprocessor control. (Well, and phase-locked loops)

It wasn't that long ago (1970s) that recreational boaters used CB radios because they were cheaper. And even then, CB radios were expensive enough that people would steal them.

[s/v Jedi]

Actually, when I did my Marine General Class exams, I had to do a call on 2182. We had a Sailor MF/HF radio right next to the Sailor VHF, each a big green unit with large dial on my father’s sailboat.

And this exam wasn’t even that long ago… I think in the late 90’s. I called a station in England which was a maritime educational institute as well. I was the only recreational sailor in the class…

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Whatever. You are still wrong.

When you are 15-20 miles from shore first put out a message on VHF then go from there.

(I would do that first at any distance from shore hoping someone close might hear then go from there with Sat Phone etc)

Try to remember that and then you will have learned at least something.

Wrong is wrong no matter how many paragraphs you write to cover up your mistake.....

GMDSS requires you carry TWO indpendant means of relaying a distress to the shore NOT other boats

If you wish to disagree with GMDSS or don’t even understand it by all means that’s your opinion

Hence these days the key is to be able to reach the local sea area mrcc. NOT other vessels.

If you think distress is about shouting “ help me “ you do not understand GMDSS and you my friend are “ wrong “

Hence whether you use a mobile phone to ring the local mrcc or press the DSC distress alert button oesn’t really make a blind difference once you have the ability to communicate a distress alert. Boats come to your ais after first contacting thd mrcc and agreeing the appropriate response strategy

If you disagree with the worldwide GMDSS distress procedures that’s fine but don’t try and claim I’m wrong

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

GMDSS requires you carry TWO indpendant means of relaying a distress to the shore NOT other boats[.] If you wish to disagree with GMDSS or don’t even understand it by all means that’s your opinion [....]Hence whether you use a mobile phone to ring the local mrcc or press the DSC distress alert button oesn’t really make a blind difference
[...]

If you disagree with the worldwide GMDSS distress procedures that’s fine but don’t try and claim I’m wrong

Of course you're not wrong, I mean, wrong isn't something you would ever do. But help me out here. Where can I get me one of those GMDSS compliant mobile phones of which you speak?

[team karst]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well when your installation is a mess then sure use the phone. When your installation is done properly (antenna system, DSC functional, receiving positioning data etc.) then the first thing you do is press that distress button.

When I am "coastal"; within lets say 10 miles of land, the USCG is my last choice for involvement. I much prefer the Sheriffs office with their high speed boats, but this is South FL centric advice. The sheriffs office operates at far more inlets than the USCG, and their response is faster, with far less radio Q and A's. Now, if the emergency is a sinking, on fire, cruise ship a hundred miles out, the story changes.
Also, keep in mind that the counties helicopters typically do not have winch service.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by team karst

When I am "coastal"; within lets say 10 miles of land, the USCG is my last choice for involvement. I much prefer the Sheriffs office with their high speed boats, but this is South FL centric advice. The sheriffs office operates at far more inlets than the USCG, and their response is faster, with far less radio Q and A's. Now, if the emergency is a sinking, on fire, cruise ship a hundred miles out, the story changes.
Also, keep in mind that the counties helicopters typically do not have winch service.

You say that, but I bet you didn’t spend one single hour in class for a GMDSS license. If you did, how could you forget everything you learned?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Of course you're not wrong, I mean, wrong isn't something you would ever do. But help me out here. Where can I get me one of those GMDSS compliant mobile phones of which you speak?

Your really in a downward death spiral now arnt you

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by team karst

When I am "coastal"; within lets say 10 miles of land, the USCG is my last choice for involvement. I much prefer the Sheriffs office with their high speed boats, but this is South FL centric advice. The sheriffs office operates at far more inlets than the USCG, and their response is faster, with far less radio Q and A's. Now, if the emergency is a sinking, on fire, cruise ship a hundred miles out, the story changes.
Also, keep in mind that the counties helicopters typically do not have winch service.

Tne whole point is you don’t get to decide who rescues you and by what means. The mrcc decides.