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Old 24-05-2022, 04:21   #1
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Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

In early spring in anticipation of a trip on a friends boat that’s in process I purchased a new IPAD with built in GPS and their largest screen in order to use it with Navionics. I don’t recall if the clerk at Best Buy asked me if I needed the cellular or Wi-Fi version, but I do recall an extensive conversation regarding my main purpose for buying a larger/IPAD.
After much experimenting trying to get Navionics to show our vessel position and basically do everything on it that I could do on my very small IPHONE, I called Navionics and evenly got a live person to trouble shoot with me. In fairly quick time we landed on my IPAD, not having “cellular’. So now it seems I’ve been using a device for three months, that won’t even do what I mainly bought it for. There’s no way they take it back at this point and swap it but we are in port for a bit si I plan to go talk to them in person about this.
Before I do I’d like to understand this a bit more, plus learn about options such as “ Bad Elf”, which the Navionics trouble shooting guy on the phone told me about. The last thing I want is another device to buy/charge/keep up with, but it sounds like at this point it might be the most practical solution?
Lastly, why do I need ‘cellular” on a device I don’t plan to use as one? Just this post and specifically the prior question probably confirm I’m a technoidiot, and if so that’s definitely accurate.

Thoughts on/education/suggestions and pros/cons of Bad Elf or a similar device very much appreciated folks. If an archive search (which I also struggle with) would have revealed my answers I apologize, but my window of being in port and learning then executing on what I need to do is only open a short period, and I hope to resolve this today.
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Old 24-05-2022, 04:27   #2
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

WIFI only versions of IPads do not have a GPS. Why? Because Apple is a lousy company that sells overly expensive sub grade hardware in my opinion.

I am very computer literate. I play with Raspberry Pi Arduino, and Linux in general and we have Windows computers. I use Android. My wife uses Apple for her IPad and phone. I tell her if she has problems take them somewhere else.

Buy a $300 Android and make sure it has a GPS. You will be fine.

Yes you can get bluetooth GPS devices but you should not have too.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:08   #3
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Yes.

You can get a cellular connection from 20 miles away from a cell tower, but only a few hundred feet, from a WiFi router [if there is one].

Cellular data can be accessed from almost everywhere, there just needs to be cellular towers nearby. Theoretically, a cell phone has enough power to reach a cell tower that is up to 45 miles away, though 20 -22 miles is a more typical range.
Since Wi-Fi is a local area network (LAN), it can only provide internet access within a short-range [150 - 300 Feet], of the router, that connects it to an Internet service provider.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:14   #4
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didn’t have GPS. Don’t know if other brands at the time did or not. You say ‘buy a $300 Android and I’ll be fine. It has GPS”. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isn’t my problem I’m told. My problem is I don’t have “cellular”
Does the Android have cellular?
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:14   #5
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Next time you buy a device to be your chartplotter, ask if it has GPS.

Sorry, it is really confusing and annoying that they don't put GPS in those units. Easy mistake.

Recoup some loss by selling it and getting one that has GPS?

If you go the external GPS route, make sure that its actually a supported configuration, that the software, ipad, and exact gps unit are all known to work together.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:18   #6
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Yes.

You can get a cellular connection from 20 miles away from a cell tower, but only a few hundred feet, from a WiFi router [if there is one].

Cellular data can be accessed from almost everywhere, there just needs to be cellular towers nearby. Theoretically, a cell phone has enough power to reach a cell tower that is up to 45 miles away, though 20 -22 miles is a more typical range.
Since Wi-Fi is a local area network (LAN), it can only provide internet access within a short-range [150 - 300 Feet], of the router, that connects it to an Internet service provider.
This (while a decent explanation of cellular vs WiFi, though the ranges listed are wrong!) actually has nothing to do with the problem. The reason the OP needs the cellular version of the ipad is because the GPS antenna and chipset is only present in the Cellular version of the ipad. I've been using cellular enabled ipads for years for nagivation (as a secondary device) without a sim card in it. and with that the GPS functionality works fine
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:19   #7
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22 View Post
Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didn’t have GPS. Don’t know if other brands at the time did or not. You say ‘buy a $300 Android and I’ll be fine. It has GPS”. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isn’t my problem I’m told. My problem is I don’t have “cellular”
Does the Android have cellular?
If your Ipad isn't a Cellular model, it DOES NOT have a GPS antenna and receiver in it. Apple has been like that since the iPads first came out. You don't need cellular service for the GPS to work on a cellular enabled ipad
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:20   #8
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Depending on the electronic package on your friend's boat it might be cheaper and easier to add WiFi to it and use it's data
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:21   #9
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22 View Post
Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didn’t have GPS. Don’t know if other brands at the time did or not. You say ‘buy a $300 Android and I’ll be fine. It has GPS”. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isn’t my problem I’m told. My problem is I don’t have “cellular”
Does the Android have cellular?
You don't need "cellular" as they don't put cell towers mid ocean. You need a gps receiver, which your ipad most likely does not have because it is not the "cellular" version which has nothing to do with cell towers. The wifi only ipads do not have gps receivers which is what you need.

https://www.lifewire.com/ipad-gps-information-1683262
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:24   #10
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

On the bright side Apple will trade it for the new one that does have the correct one at a loss even if Best Buy doesn’t call them
Note you will not get full price
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:25   #11
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Thanks pcmm (#6) & jeanathon (#9), for correcting my Luddite confusion.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:29   #12
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Just get a external GPS antenna and call it a day. Or if you have a Garmin Inreach, when you pair with that it will use the Garmin as an antenna. Or if you have an AIS transceiver that broadcasts a WiFi signal, it will use the AIS’ GPS info when you connect to that.

With the number of devices on boats nowadays that are both GPS and WiFi enabled, it’s really not that big of a deal as they can share GPS info.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:39   #13
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Just buy a GPS puck for your iPad and you're good to go. Used a Dual XGPS150A last summer and it worked just fine. Just as an aside, I had purchased a used Cellular iPad that had Navionics on it from the previous owner. When he handed it over to me, he wiped out the content. I wasn't able to reload Navionics as the ipad's ios version was no longer supported. (previous owner was able to restore an older version of Navionics with his Apple ID but unfortunately I couldn't so I bought the Dual external GPS for my non cellular ipad)
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:42   #14
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

As already said, but just to be extra clear.
The iPads with cellular have GPS built in.
The wifi-only version do not.

No idea why - but that’s the long and short of it.

I had the same issue, went through the same confusion, and bought the Bad Elf. It’s a cheap fix and works well to get the iPad functioning. It connects to GPS satellites and then provides the data via Bluetooth, to multiple devices at once if you have more than one. So in theory it might help with someone/something besides just the iPad in question. It also records some trip info itself if you want.

It’s yet another gadget with its own internal battery and charger to manage, but hasn’t caused me any trouble, so it was a worthwhile purchase.
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Old 24-05-2022, 05:46   #15
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Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

If you decide on an external GPS, you don't have to use the Bad Elf model. I've used a Dual GPS with an old iPad. There are probably others.
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