Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-05-2022, 04:21   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Boat: 40 ft Van Dine Custom Gaffed rigged Schooner
Posts: 136
Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

In early spring in anticipation of a trip on a friends boat thatís in process I purchased a new IPAD with built in GPS and their largest screen in order to use it with Navionics. I donít recall if the clerk at Best Buy asked me if I needed the cellular or Wi-Fi version, but I do recall an extensive conversation regarding my main purpose for buying a larger/IPAD.
After much experimenting trying to get Navionics to show our vessel position and basically do everything on it that I could do on my very small IPHONE, I called Navionics and evenly got a live person to trouble shoot with me. In fairly quick time we landed on my IPAD, not having ďcellularí. So now it seems Iíve been using a device for three months, that wonít even do what I mainly bought it for. Thereís no way they take it back at this point and swap it but we are in port for a bit si I plan to go talk to them in person about this.
Before I do Iíd like to understand this a bit more, plus learn about options such as ď Bad ElfĒ, which the Navionics trouble shooting guy on the phone told me about. The last thing I want is another device to buy/charge/keep up with, but it sounds like at this point it might be the most practical solution?
Lastly, why do I need ĎcellularĒ on a device I donít plan to use as one? Just this post and specifically the prior question probably confirm Iím a technoidiot, and if so thatís definitely accurate.

Thoughts on/education/suggestions and pros/cons of Bad Elf or a similar device very much appreciated folks. If an archive search (which I also struggle with) would have revealed my answers I apologize, but my window of being in port and learning then executing on what I need to do is only open a short period, and I hope to resolve this today.
Tatheelrod22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 04:27   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 64
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

WIFI only versions of IPads do not have a GPS. Why? Because Apple is a lousy company that sells overly expensive sub grade hardware in my opinion.

I am very computer literate. I play with Raspberry Pi Arduino, and Linux in general and we have Windows computers. I use Android. My wife uses Apple for her IPad and phone. I tell her if she has problems take them somewhere else.

Buy a $300 Android and make sure it has a GPS. You will be fine.

Yes you can get bluetooth GPS devices but you should not have too.
Sailorman97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:08   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,052
Images: 241
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Yes.

You can get a cellular connection from 20 miles away from a cell tower, but only a few hundred feet, from a WiFi router [if there is one].

Cellular data can be accessed from almost everywhere, there just needs to be cellular towers nearby. Theoretically, a cell phone has enough power to reach a cell tower that is up to 45 miles away, though 20 -22 miles is a more typical range.
Since Wi-Fi is a local area network (LAN), it can only provide internet access within a short-range [150 - 300 Feet], of the router, that connects it to an Internet service provider.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:14   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Boat: 40 ft Van Dine Custom Gaffed rigged Schooner
Posts: 136
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didnít have GPS. Donít know if other brands at the time did or not. You say Ďbuy a $300 Android and Iíll be fine. It has GPSĒ. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isnít my problem Iím told. My problem is I donít have ďcellularĒ
Does the Android have cellular?
Tatheelrod22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:14   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Boat: 41' yawl
Posts: 1,144
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Next time you buy a device to be your chartplotter, ask if it has GPS.

Sorry, it is really confusing and annoying that they don't put GPS in those units. Easy mistake.

Recoup some loss by selling it and getting one that has GPS?

If you go the external GPS route, make sure that its actually a supported configuration, that the software, ipad, and exact gps unit are all known to work together.
chris95040 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:18   #6
Registered User
 
pcmm's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 1,765
Images: 2
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Yes.

You can get a cellular connection from 20 miles away from a cell tower, but only a few hundred feet, from a WiFi router [if there is one].

Cellular data can be accessed from almost everywhere, there just needs to be cellular towers nearby. Theoretically, a cell phone has enough power to reach a cell tower that is up to 45 miles away, though 20 -22 miles is a more typical range.
Since Wi-Fi is a local area network (LAN), it can only provide internet access within a short-range [150 - 300 Feet], of the router, that connects it to an Internet service provider.
This (while a decent explanation of cellular vs WiFi, though the ranges listed are wrong!) actually has nothing to do with the problem. The reason the OP needs the cellular version of the ipad is because the GPS antenna and chipset is only present in the Cellular version of the ipad. I've been using cellular enabled ipads for years for nagivation (as a secondary device) without a sim card in it. and with that the GPS functionality works fine
pcmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:19   #7
Registered User
 
pcmm's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 1,765
Images: 2
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22 View Post
Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didn’t have GPS. Don’t know if other brands at the time did or not. You say ‘buy a $300 Android and I’ll be fine. It has GPS”. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isn’t my problem I’m told. My problem is I don’t have “cellular”
Does the Android have cellular?
If your Ipad isn't a Cellular model, it DOES NOT have a GPS antenna and receiver in it. Apple has been like that since the iPads first came out. You don't need cellular service for the GPS to work on a cellular enabled ipad
pcmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:20   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Kentucky
Boat: TP52
Posts: 26
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Depending on the electronic package on your friend's boat it might be cheaper and easier to add WiFi to it and use it's data
RocketScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:21   #9
Registered User
 
jeanathon's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WNC mountains U.S.
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 936
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22 View Post
Sorry but now I might be more confused. My understanding is older models including the one I have didn’t have GPS. Don’t know if other brands at the time did or not. You say ‘buy a $300 Android and I’ll be fine. It has GPS”. My new IPAD has GPS. GPS isn’t my problem I’m told. My problem is I don’t have “cellular”
Does the Android have cellular?
You don't need "cellular" as they don't put cell towers mid ocean. You need a gps receiver, which your ipad most likely does not have because it is not the "cellular" version which has nothing to do with cell towers. The wifi only ipads do not have gps receivers which is what you need.

https://www.lifewire.com/ipad-gps-information-1683262
__________________
I hear you. There's no need for the caps lock.
jeanathon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:24   #10
Registered User
 
AKA-None's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 1,960
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

On the bright side Apple will trade it for the new one that does have the correct one at a loss even if Best Buy doesnít call them
Note you will not get full price
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
AKA-None is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:25   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 47,052
Images: 241
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Thanks pcmm (#6) & jeanathon (#9), for correcting my Luddite confusion.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:29   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Boat: Nauticat 33
Posts: 139
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Just get a external GPS antenna and call it a day. Or if you have a Garmin Inreach, when you pair with that it will use the Garmin as an antenna. Or if you have an AIS transceiver that broadcasts a WiFi signal, it will use the AISí GPS info when you connect to that.

With the number of devices on boats nowadays that are both GPS and WiFi enabled, itís really not that big of a deal as they can share GPS info.
cofc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:39   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Thousand Islands
Boat: Tanzer 29
Posts: 4
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

Just buy a GPS puck for your iPad and you're good to go. Used a Dual XGPS150A last summer and it worked just fine. Just as an aside, I had purchased a used Cellular iPad that had Navionics on it from the previous owner. When he handed it over to me, he wiped out the content. I wasn't able to reload Navionics as the ipad's ios version was no longer supported. (previous owner was able to restore an older version of Navionics with his Apple ID but unfortunately I couldn't so I bought the Dual external GPS for my non cellular ipad)
idclic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:42   #14
Registered User
 
Oeanda's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Haida Gwaii
Boat: Landfall 39 - Ron Amy
Posts: 346
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

As already said, but just to be extra clear.
The iPads with cellular have GPS built in.
The wifi-only version do not.

No idea why - but that’s the long and short of it.

I had the same issue, went through the same confusion, and bought the Bad Elf. It’s a cheap fix and works well to get the iPad functioning. It connects to GPS satellites and then provides the data via Bluetooth, to multiple devices at once if you have more than one. So in theory it might help with someone/something besides just the iPad in question. It also records some trip info itself if you want.

It’s yet another gadget with its own internal battery and charger to manage, but hasn’t caused me any trouble, so it was a worthwhile purchase.
Oeanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 05:46   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 47
Re: Did I make a $1,400 mistake?

If you decide on an external GPS, you don't have to use the Bad Elf model. I've used a Dual GPS with an old iPad. There are probably others.
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
8 X 100W Flexible Solar + Morningstar MPPT-60 did I make a mistake autumnbreeze27 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 14 15-02-2015 15:15
Did The America's Cup Make a Mistake Shifting to Multi-Hulls? kimonojoe General Sailing Forum 31 15-02-2012 10:01

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.