dead transducer or dead sounder unit

[Seapig]

Determining whether a transducer is dead has been discussed before. I have followed the advice of trying to hear the ticking with a stethascope and a screwdriver. No Joy. I have a multimeter only. No frequency option, no oscilloscope. I would assume that if the sounder is dead it will not be sending a signal to the transducer and thus I wouldn't hear any clicks. Is this correct?



Currently the Tridata ST60+ reads

Depth ----

water temperature 91.8

windspeed 0.00



the transducer is a Airmar B117 PN 31-092-7-01
the sounder unit is DSM 300



wiring diagram attached (I hope)


In case it doesn't come through the wires are labeled as follows


1. unused
2. unused
3. shield (depth)
4, sense
5. sense
6. positive (depth)
7. negative (depth)


4 and 5 appear to be pigtailed together within the unit and labeled stripped leads on the diag.


There are no accessible wires at the transducer itself.


Question: is the problem with the transducer or the sounder or both?



On the sounder unit Can I use the multimeter to measure a voltage to determine if the sounder unit is sending a signal to the transducer?
What terminals would I measure?
Am I going to ground or between two terminals?

If so what am I looking for?

If this is AC voltage will the frequency be too high to register on a digital meter?



Thank you very much for any help.
SP

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Seapig

Determining whether a transducer is dead has been discussed before. I have followed the advice of trying to hear the ticking with a stethascope and a screwdriver. No Joy. I have a multimeter only. No frequency option, no oscilloscope. I would assume that if the sounder is dead it will not be sending a signal to the transducer and thus I wouldn't hear any clicks. Is this correct?

I've usually been able to hear the clicks. If you can't hear clicks... and no depth reading, problem. Unfortunately the problem could be any place; wiring/connection problem, failed transducer, or blown instrument.

There's little you will be able to do with a multimeter, other than checking the voltage and wiring.

The fastest and best troubleshooting is to go to a dealers, or another boat that has an identical working instrument, and do some swapping. If your display works with their transducer (or simulator), then you know it's your transducer, or maybe your wiring.

My ST60 depth sounder failed after 7 seasons of light use... very disappointing. I've replaced it with a fishfinder at a third of the price.

[Seapig]

Lake effect - which fish finder did you get?
Does it have an in-hull transducer?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Seapig

Lake effect - which fish finder did you get?
Does it have an in-hull transducer?

Garmin Striker 4. It comes with a transom-mount transducer, but I already knew we could shoot through our hull without needing a hole, so I cut the back out of a PVC electrical octagon box, siliconed it to the hull, filled it with nontoxic antifreeze, plopped the transom transducer in there, and it's been working great for 3 seasons so far.

If your boat doesn't have a cored hull, maybe you can shoot through yours too. Test by putting the transducer and some water in a baggie, and position the baggie at various spots on your hull to see what you get.

Lots more info on CF and on the web about shooting through the hulls.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Seapig

Lake effect - which fish finder did you get?
Does it have an in-hull transducer?

Do you have an in hull transducer?
If so is it epoxied to the hull?
Or in a liquid filled container?
Check it for looseness or loss of liquid.
Either would cause that issue.
SV Cloud Duster

[smac999]

what is your chart plotter? c120?

go to the depth sounder page. what do you see? is it trying to paint something or are you getting a connection error to the dsm 300. if you are getting connection errors and the screen does not see the dsm 300 then it's probably the sounder. if it's trying to paint something but no bottom, it could be either.

honestly the only way to know is to find a spare 300 and transducer and swap one at a time. throw the spare transducer over the side to test.

[Seapig]

SMAC999 My Chart plotter is C120 and it to has suffered an untimely demise. In fact I posted previously for advice on how to determine if the chart plotter display unit was the problem or the "brains".


boatyard dog - it is a thru-hull transducer and is of the type that has to be removed from the underside of the hull. In the list of sins committed by the previous owner that one is exceptionally grievous.


Lake effect there isn't a dealer in 60 miles of my current location. Not having a car or a common language makes things somewhat frustrating.

How did you know your transducer would penetrate the hull? By the way I love hearing how someone was able to get around the million dollar marine markup with a simple fix. Good on ya.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Seapig

SMAC999 My Chart plotter is C120 and it to has suffered an untimely demise. In fact I posted previously for advice on how to determine if the chart plotter display unit was the problem or the "brains".



boatyard dog - it is a thru-hull transducer and is of the type that has to be removed from the underside of the hull. In the list of sins committed by the previous owner that one is exceptionally grievous.


Lake effect there isn't a dealer in 60 miles of my current location. Not having a car or a common language makes things somewhat frustrating.

How did you know your transducer would penetrate the hull? By the way I love hearing how someone was able to get around the million dollar marine markup with a simple fix. Good on ya.

Raymarine has a pretty robust tech support line.
You might call them before condeming your C120.
Or, early X mas gift yourself a new gen
Plotter.
And you can still install a "shoot thru the hull" transducer and display cheaply using Faria guage with a seamar transducer.
Not much money for a back up depth sounder, under $100.
SV Cloud Duster

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Seapig

SMAC999 My Chart plotter is C120 and it to has suffered an untimely demise. In fact I posted previously for advice on how to determine if the chart plotter display unit was the problem or the "brains".


boatyard dog - it is a thru-hull transducer and is of the type that has to be removed from the underside of the hull. In the list of sins committed by the previous owner that one is exceptionally grievous.


Lake effect there isn't a dealer in 60 miles of my current location. Not having a car or a common language makes things somewhat frustrating.

How did you know your transducer would penetrate the hull? By the way I love hearing how someone was able to get around the million dollar marine markup with a simple fix. Good on ya.

the dsm sends depth data to the c120. the c120 will convert it to seatalk to send to the st60. if the c120 is not working. the st60 will never have depth.

if the st60 has a depth input on the back, you could probably cut the transducer wire and connect it to the st60 bypassing the dsm 300. I'm not sure if the tri data takes a depth input or if only the depth one does.

it's also possible the st60 already has it's own depth transducer and you have 2 on the boat.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Seapig

Lake effect there isn't a dealer in 60 miles of my current location. Not having a car or a common language makes things somewhat frustrating.

My condolences. It's frustrating when brand-name top-notch gear fails somewhat prematurely. I would have thought that the price premium was bringing more reliability.

You need a schematic, an oscilloscope, and a technician's training to really dig into those units. And even then...

How did you know your transducer would penetrate the hull?

You need to know whether the hull's cored or not (solid FG hulls conduct the ultrasonic pulses more readily)... and then you just experiment with locations using the transducer-and-water-in-baggie trick.

More info, including a recommendation for plumbers putty, which I've not tried but sounds reasonable, is simple, and unlike epoxy is 'reversable'.

[Seapig]

Smac999 Do the speed and water temperature sensors also feed through the C120 or are they separate. The reason I ask is that the speed on the ST60 registers zero (as expected) and the water temperature is 91 (about what is expected). I am hoping that is the case because it would imply that it is the display that is buggered and not the "brains" for lack of a better word.

The ST60 has three spade connectors on the back that are labeled depth. There are a bunch of wires with spade connectors lounging around in the area, unconnected and unlabeled. Hence my statement about hanging offense.

When you say directly connect the transducer to the ST60, does that imply that the ST60 can function as the sounder or did you mean connect the sounder directly to the ST60? Either way given that there are only 3 connectors, which ones of the 6 wires on the wiring diagram would one connect?


Boatyard dog -- my current plan is to get either a faria as you suggested or a fishfinder as stand alone devices. I currently have a great fondness for standalone. The only thing that is stopping me is the length of wire that they come with. Given the nature of my boat the 22' cable is unlikely to be long enough and as stated above I understand that splicing them is a bad idea. I planned on updating all the electronics but I want to do it at home not here in the back of beyond. I found a list of the top fifty electronics parts suppliers and I went through 23 of them before I found a company that would ship to Puerto Rico. Let's hear it for the Jone's Act.


thanks for your help
SP

[markcouz]

I have similar instruments except E80 instead of C120.

My ST60/DSM300 shows depth with E80 powered down so I don't think your C120 has anything to do with the issue.

Just an opinion, not a specialist.

[markcouz]

I will have to retract my previous comment, just checked the wiring diagram and the transducer connects to dsm300, dsm300 connects to (my e80, your c120), so the only seatalk output must be via the e80/c120.

Still works with e80 powered down some other magic going on behind the scene.

[OldGreyB]

The DSM 300 is designed to supply the depth signal over the seatalk network to your C120. Since you state your C120 is AWOL, then you can connect your Airmar directly to the ST60. My experiance with Airmar transducers are they are typically robust, its the wiring connectivity or displays / interface units that cause the majority of issues. See wiring diagram attached for transducer to ST60 as per the Raymarine manual. Use your posted wiring diagram and this diagram to get connectivity.

[Seapig]

Originally Posted by OldGreyB

The DSM 300 is designed to supply the depth signal over the seatalk network to your C120. Since you state your C120 is AWOL, then you can connect your Airmar directly to the ST60. My experiance with Airmar transducers are they are typically robust, its the wiring connectivity or displays / interface units that cause the majority of issues. See wiring diagram attached for transducer to ST60 as per the Raymarine manual. Use your posted wiring diagram and this diagram to get connectivity.

OldGreyB do you know if "screen" on the Raymarine diagram is the same as "shield" on the Airmar wiring diag?


thx