Current state of affairs for HF

[smac999]

I would consider HF to be a hobby. and not standard usable equipment. and not for the average boater. you need training, knowledge, a good working system (rare) and actual passion on wanting to know how it works and the desire to use it daily. so you can finally get it working and keep it working.

most people today just want to pick something up and use it, and it works. that does not happen with HF.

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by smac999

I would consider HF to be a hobby. and not standard usable equipment. and not for the average boater. you need training, knowledge, a good working system (rare) and actual passion on wanting to know how it works and the desire to use it daily. so you can finally get it working and keep it working.

most people today just want to pick something up and use it, and it works. that does not happen with HF.

Well, thats the trouble with HF today, so much of it has become PnP.

[Mike OReilly]

Great discussion. I have no experience with HF, but I’m struggling with the same question: Is it worth the investment?

My boat is set up for an SSB system. I already have the split backstay, copper ground strapping, and a dynaplate already installed. All I need is a radio (probably Icom 802), a tuner and a modem. I’m just not sure I need it.

I can get reasonable forecasting whenever I’m coastal cruising via VHF and cell data. When offshore I’ve successfully used the inReach marine forecasts. And I believe I can retrieve weather fax via my recently-acquired HF receiver. I can also pick up transmissions like Chris Parker.

I’ve not (yet) crossed an ocean, so don’t know if that kind of distant communication is valuable to me. I’m not a chatty-kathy at the best of times. I almost never chat on VHF when inshore. On rare occasions I’ve travelled in the company of other boaters, but this has always been pretty loose.

That said, I appreciate the ability to communicate freely. And I don’t like being dependent on satellites.

What to do...

[Nicor]

if you have the cash to spend get your ham lic (general), m802 (opened for ham) and the other items required for it.

Oh, you well need at least the restricted radio telephone operator lic/permit for the SSB.
That is in addition to the Radio Amateur General Class lic.

[a64pilot]

I bought an 802 two years ago, just finished installing it. I do not yet have a Pactor modem.
I have a Garmin inreach and may buy a Sat phone if and when we cross the Pacific, but it and a liferaft will wait until then

Way I see it is nothing beats a Sat phone when you want to call an individual, but not so good at hollering for help and hoping someone near you hears.
Sat phones can be had relatively inexpensively, but are expensive to use, the 802 is a big cost up front, but free after that, except for sailmail of course.
Pay me now, or pay me later

[TLSparks]

Originally Posted by Adelie

I don't think that an HF radio and/or SatComm are required tools therefore I don't think that not having either is a reason to wait.

You do not need any communications is nothing bad happens.

[Symphony]

I use an InReach for text email weather when offshore. Works excellently. Small investment in $$ and especially small investment in time to set up, learn, and use it to a high degree of success. I also pair it with FastSeas weather routing for steering around currents and weather.

It is not free- $70 per month for unlimited when used on a monthly on/off basis.

But the overall cost of purchase, learning curve, installation ($00), maintenance and alignment (also $00), and monthly cost is the best i have found.

And they give you a free webpage for your friends to track you.
I am currently 200 miles west of the Seychelles.

[Pizzazz]

HF is not as popular as it used to be. We are in a solar minimum which means that the upper bands (10-30 Mhz) are rarely open. So we use the lower bands, centered around 3.5 and 7 MHz. However, these bands are prone to static and require a solid SSB installation. The result is that many people leave the hobby for a few years as the reliability of the connections falls.

In my experience, I was making reliable Winlink connections before - now, I have to think about the distance, the time of day, experiment with a few bands - then once I find a good station, it is of course busy because someone else was smarter of course. It can get frustrating at times.

I still think that an SSB radio is a great tool to have for offshore sailing but I would not spend $5K on a new set/install. Since many hams are leaving the hobby, try to get a previously owned set, use it for a few years, then upgrade to Iridium Next when it becomes available. I believe it will be a game changer.

[TLSparks]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I bought an 802 two years ago, just finished installing it. I do not yet have a Pactor modem.
I have a Garmin inreach and may buy a Sat phone if and when we cross the Pacific, but it and a liferaft will wait until then

Way I see it is nothing beats a Sat phone when you want to call an individual, but not so good at hollering for help and hoping someone near you hears.
Sat phones can be had relatively inexpensively, but are expensive to use, the 802 is a big cost up front, but free after that, except for sailmail of course.
Pay me now, or pay me later

Smart man!

[TLSparks]

Originally Posted by Symphony

I use an InReach for text email weather when offshore. Works excellently. Small investment in $$ and especially small investment in time to set up, learn, and use it to a high degree of success. I also pair it with FastSeas weather routing for steering around currents and weather.

It is not free- $70 per month for unlimited when used on a monthly on/off basis.

But the overall cost of purchase, learning curve, installation ($00), maintenance and alignment (also $00), and monthly cost is the best i have found.

And they give you a free webpage for your friends to track you.
I am currently 200 miles west of the Seychelles.

Sounds like a good tool. So what would you use if you hit a container and have a significant leak/flooding 1000 miles off shore to get help? None of that ties into the GMDSS.

[TLSparks]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

HF is not as popular as it used to be. We are in a solar minimum which means that the upper bands (10-30 Mhz) are rarely open. So we use the lower bands, centered around 3.5 and 7 MHz. However, these bands are prone to static and require a solid SSB installation. The result is that many people leave the hobby for a few years as the reliability of the connections falls.

In my experience, I was making reliable Winlink connections before - now, I have to think about the distance, the time of day, experiment with a few bands - then once I find a good station, it is of course busy because someone else was smarter of course. It can get frustrating at times.

I still think that an SSB radio is a great tool to have for offshore sailing but I would not spend $5K on a new set/install. Since many hams are leaving the hobby, try to get a previously owned set, use it for a few years, then upgrade to Iridium Next when it becomes available. I believe it will be a game changer.

I like lots of backup. Probably from riding submarines. If you plan to by an HF radio to BS on an old Ham rig will work fine. If it to be part of your safety system a used M802, if you can find one, is the right solution. It is also good to get a Ham license to allow access to Ham nets as many operate from shore stations and can provide access to internet and phone patches, but not necessary for safety. You can call anyone in an emergency and the primary source for help is close help. Large vessels are a DSC call away. A distress call must be answered by a shore station within 4.9 minutes. If not answered all DSC vessels must send a distress relay. I have heard that one time. 20+vessels I could here relayed. The M802 can be purchased for around $2500. Get at least a used Pactor (a Pactor is about the cost of other systems for a year) unless you have a sat phone to get email and weather. It is easy to install and the best installations are by the owners as installers ten to take shortcuts to save time I assume. MF/HF SSB may be used to play/ hobby as some say, but a DSC MF/HF SSB is primarily for safety of your crew and vessel at sea out of VHF DSC range.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

HF is not as popular as it used to be. We are in a solar minimum which means that the upper bands (10-30 Mhz) are rarely open. So we use the lower bands, centered around 3.5 and 7 MHz. However, these bands are prone to static and require a solid SSB installation. The result is that many people leave the hobby for a few years as the reliability of the connections falls.

In my experience, I was making reliable Winlink connections before - now, I have to think about the distance, the time of day, experiment with a few bands - then once I find a good station, it is of course busy because someone else was smarter of course. It can get frustrating at times.

I still think that an SSB radio is a great tool to have for offshore sailing but I would not spend $5K on a new set/install. Since many hams are leaving the hobby, try to get a previously owned set, use it for a few years, then upgrade to Iridium Next when it becomes available. I believe it will be a game changer.

Well, exactly. So many people are dumping their HF sets that with a bit of patience, you can put together a SSB installation from EBay and/or Craigslist for about a kilobuck. Which is probably less than the upfront cost of a sat phone, considering their rapid obsolescence. But the next generation satellite service (or possibly the generation after that) will likely be a complete game-changer.

Apologies if someone already mentioned, but for even less money you can pick up a good shortwave receiver and with some cheap iPad apps, download weatherfax, navtex, and voice forecasts for free. That doesn't let you send a distress (or routine) signal, but EPIRBs are pretty cheap these days... Low cash outlay, no monthly fees.

[Jammer]

Thank you all for the replies.

I already hold an amateur radio license and a restricted radiotelephone operator's permit. I've worked on a number of packet radio systems, both on an amateur basis and professionally, but all at VHF and higher frequencies, not HF. I was also the chief engineer at a small (1000 watt) FM broadcast station at one point. I used to troubleshoot problems in 800 Mhz packet radio systems around the US before most of the spectrum was taken over by cellular phones. I don't think I would have too much trouble keeping an HF system working properly on a boat, or installing one for that matter. Good antenna, solid ground (or counterpoise), clean connections, proper feedline, clean power, low noise floor. Not that hard.

The question to me is just whether it's worth the money and the effort, and the replies have helped with that. I had not realized how good Iridium had become and how reasonable the rates are now, for example.

I also find it insightful that Iridium, being a point-to-point service, does not provide a social connection.

A concern I have with any of the satellite services is that they are susceptible both to billing kerfuffles and to geopolitical meddling. I'm surprised this hasn't come up. Various satellite services have been shut down at the behest of certain nations in the past and it could happen again any time. HF can't be shut off by the government and is difficult to jam over a widespread area.

[JPA Cate]

Agreed that Satphone is more vulnerable to political maneuvering than SSB. Also, something I didn't mention before, is that using the ham radio has made us friends in advance of arrival in locations all the way across the Pacific, and when you talk to the people on boats ahead of you on the routes, you catch all the gossip about the areas, and again, learn places you might prefer to avoid because they are having troubles locally.

For TL Sparks, part of how you go with this will depend on the importance of DSC for you. If this matters, then possibly the 802 will be a good deal for you (although friends have had way too much trouble with theirs, mostly the transmission dropping out totally and unpredictably. Many trips to ICOM Australia. After 2 yrs., gave up, ditched the radio. In all fairness, I do not know the quality of the installation.) Otherwise, ham clubs sell off older gear frequently, and you could get a good ham radio pretty inexpensively.



Ann

[svMarite]

This string was a great read. In 2002, I solo trans-At'd and having a SSB was a godsend. I loved talking with Southbound II each day and also getting my NMF Boston weather gribs (not called that back then)...
I must have gotten really lucky because I just picked up an 802 for the new-to-us boat for a boat unit including the tuner. Just need to pick up a pactor II modem. We're heading out next fall so it's great to see the concensus of equipment and modes still in use.