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18-08-2016, 01:58
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: We still have our apartment in Beijing, but now we are cruising full time, currently in the western Med.
Boat: Tayana 55
Posts: 77
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Back-up autopilot
We are considering to install a back-up autopilot. Our boat is a Tayana 55.
A wind vane we would not really consider, because of the davits and solar panel arc. Electric power is not a concern.
It has to be a simple, robust stand-alone system. No integration with the primary Raymarine system, no wind vane mode, just steer the choosen course.
Any ideas?
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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18-08-2016, 03:18
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,138
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Re: Back-up autopilot
I understand you are not looking at a windvane, but please be aware that there are commercial windvanes out there that will work in conjunction with davits etc, so don't rule out that option if you don't have to.
I admit, I am biased, and like to have stuff that does not rely on electricity to work.
Matt
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Refitting… again.
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18-08-2016, 04:10
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,919
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Re: Back-up autopilot
http://cptautopilot.com
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18-08-2016, 04:24
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#4
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Why not just buy spares for the existing Raymarine? If the installed unit dies just swap out parts to get it working again.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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18-08-2016, 12:08
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Solomons, MD USA
Boat: Formosa 51 Aft Cockpit Ketch - "Beausoleil"
Posts: 611
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Re: Back-up autopilot
I plan on installing a second AP hydraulic drive pump in parallel to the main pump in ours, using y-valves and DPDT switches. It's from the old AP, and might as well use it. It won't do any good if the AP computer or control head die, but at least it's a start.
__________________
Cap'n Jon (KB1HTW)
S/V Beausoleil -1979 Formosa 51 Ketch
"If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." - Captain Ron
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18-08-2016, 12:17
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#6
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Even if you are going to install a completely independent secondary unit it is far better to have two identicle systems than two different types. This way if a component fails on each you can always canabalize one to fix the other.
If you are starting from scratch I would go with NKE, but since you have Raymarine installed I would stick with it. And duplicate everything you have, down to model numbers.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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18-08-2016, 13:33
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Back-up autopilot
For what you want, it seems a CPT is in my opinion a no brainier. It sits below in a box, leave it's brackets mounted to the boat and if you need it, it takes about two minutes to install. My initial plan was to have a "real" autopilot and use the CPT as a backup, but the CPT works so well I believe I will just buy another as a backup.
Now all it will do is hold a heading, nothing else, it won't hold a course or slave to anything, but all I really need is something that will hold a heading.
Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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18-08-2016, 13:43
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,617
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Check out ComNav autopilots.
DougR
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18-08-2016, 14:04
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Muskegon, Mi
Boat: Columbia 36
Posts: 1,211
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Re: Back-up autopilot
A complete duplicate Raymarine makes sense, except the idea of crawling around below deck in the middle of the night in big seas to change out a component doesn't sound like fun. As said above a wheel pilot can be installed and actuated on a couple minutes if the bracket and drum are already installed. I'd go with the CPT, I had one as my main (only) AP until it finally died from water intrusion a couple years ago. The PO bought it, I don't know how long ago but I'm guessing 25-30 years ago. I doubt you could get that kind of service out of anything from Raymarine. The thing is a real beast, ugly and powerful as hell. The new ones do interface too. The new EVO models from Raymarine are cheaper (if you don't shop West Marine) but I wouldn't rely on them.
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18-08-2016, 14:25
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Alameda
Boat: Flicka
Posts: 92
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel
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I second the CPT. I know of delivery skippers that take them in their carryon luggage in the event of autopilot failure. Easy to install in a pinch. Also, if your Raymarine unit is hydraulic consider caring spare coilpacks for the solenoid valves. Voltage spikes and salty wiring can cause them to fry when you least expect it. I too think its a good idea to have a completely seperate system especially if your main autopilot is hydraulic. These systems although powerful and robust can experience problems such as leaks/burst hoses, broken cylinder ram connection to bulkhead, electrical issues between components..etc Nice to have a simple mechanical unit that attaches to the wheel for emergencies. .
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18-08-2016, 17:49
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindbad
...A wind vane we would not really consider, because of the davits and solar panel arc...
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By substituting an inexpensive tiller pilot in place of the vane, many "wind-vane" self-steering systems can be very efficiently driven electric auto pilots. Some are completely independent of the ship's steering.
TN has an Autohelm wheel pilot and an independent wind-vane self steering, not yet installed.
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1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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18-08-2016, 18:07
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble
Even if you are going to install a completely independent secondary unit it is far better to have two identicle systems than two different types. This way if a component fails on each you can always canabalize one to fix the other.
If you are starting from scratch I would go with NKE, but since you have Raymarine installed I would stick with it. And duplicate everything you have, down to model numbers.
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+1 on THIS (above). And duplicate everything right down to the model year, & production run if you can, that way Everything about your #2 AP is the same. Plus, by going this route, you only need to keep one flavor of spare parts onboard. As opposed to having say, both B&G as well as Raymarine spares.
And with the backup AP being the same as the primary, all of your other instruments will be able to talk to it just as easily as to your other AP. Which is no small thing.
The other option is to start over, & buy a pair of NKE's, plus a full suite of NKE instruments. That, or do as a few others have suggested, & get a windvane, along with a small AP to hook up to it.
There's a good section in the Dashew's books on this topic, & since the books are free to download, there's no excuse not to have & READ them (several times). The information's that good.
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The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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18-08-2016, 18:14
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by capt jgw
A complete duplicate Raymarine makes sense, except the idea of crawling around below deck in the middle of the night in big seas to change out a component doesn't sound like fun.
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If it's 1/2 day or night, hand steer. If it's longer, heave-to till the morning, then install the backup. If your main AP is a quality one (not my experience with Ray) then this will be a very rare occurrence.
__________________
Paul
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18-08-2016, 19:03
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Annapolis MD
Boat: Building a Max Cruise 44 hybrid electric cat
Posts: 3,199
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Re: Back-up autopilot
We kept a CPT aboard as a spare to the Raymarine below deck. It seemed like an easy, low cost solution.... the CPTs have a great resale value, especially a mint back-up unit.
Give the CPT a good look.
The new boat is tiller steered. So, we've gone hydraulic below deck and a windvane back up this time around.
Matt
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18-08-2016, 19:08
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: Back-up autopilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by capt jgw
A complete duplicate Raymarine makes sense, except the idea of crawling around below deck in the middle of the night in big seas to change out a component doesn't sound like fun. As said above a wheel pilot can be installed and actuated on a couple minutes if the bracket and drum are already installed. I'd go with the CPT, I had one as my main (only) AP until it finally died from water intrusion a couple years ago. The PO bought it, I don't know how long ago but I'm guessing 25-30 years ago. I doubt you could get that kind of service out of anything from Raymarine. The thing is a real beast, ugly and powerful as hell. The new ones do interface too. The new EVO models from Raymarine are cheaper (if you don't shop West Marine) but I wouldn't rely on them.
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Some of how to setup 2 pilots of the same type depends upon the AP, & how it's configured, as well as it's design. But ideally, the idea is to have both units hooked up at the same time, with only one being active, & doing the steering. And then, if the 1st one craps out, the 2nd either auto matically takes over. Or you flip a switch or two, & the 2nd pilot "wakes up" & starts driving.
A good bit of this is covered in the AP section of the Dashew's Crusing Encclopedia Vol. II & is worth reading. And more than likely, there's plenty more info on the topic available via a quick search of the internet. As for example, there's a vast number of Single-Handed & Short-Handed racing boats out there who have their steering/AP gear setup in this way.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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