Auto Pilot Question (IP29)

[UNCIVILIZED]

Does it have to be an AP? Meaning is a vane an option? That along with using the wheel brake for tiny stretches away from the helm when under power. If you do some searching you can find good deals on them. Or even rig up something of your own design. But I've seen a fair number of Monitors listed at $1.5k, & other brands for the same or less.

[Amani Jnana]

Thanks to everyone for helping me unravel this mystery. I've determined that the least expensive (upfront cost) for my type of boat can be had in the the form of a wheel pilot. However, regardless of the brand, none of them are really inexpensive in comparison to what you get for the money. And because the IP steering wheel shaft comes out of the pilot seat behind the wheel, which means the drive motor for the wheel pilot must be mounted either on the deck directly under the wheel (read: stubbed toes and lines or other loose items getting tangled in the drive belt) or on the side of the seat/bench port or starboard of the wheel (read: watch me trip over this three times a day) and because the island packet rudder is fairly large, I personally do not want a wheel pilot on my boat. I have decided to do without until I can either afford an autopilot with the hydraulic/mechanical working end of the system below deck and out from under foot, or perhaps a windvave. I figure if Columbus can get to the New World without an autopilot, I should be able to get to Thailand from Malaysia without one. As of today "buy autopilot" is being erased from my to do list.

[Amani Jnana]

I've decided instead, to spend my limited cruising money on a washer and dryer for the boat (inside joke).

[RaymondR]

I have been using a Raymarine ST4000 head to drive various manifestations of a wheel pilot for about 20 years now. The head has given excellent service except for blowing a couple of H bridge mosfets when a motor blew.


I threw away the plastic wheel drive parts about 15 years ago, it used to chew up a Syncroflex belt about once a month and eventually chewed out the little nylon gears in the planetary drive gearbox.


The first iteration was the motor and gearbox from a Chinese battery drill driving the Synchroflex belt, an emergency fix. It was too high geared so I used a second gearbox from another Chinese drill and drove an auto timing belt onto a Regal cookware frypan on the wheel. Got about 7 years out of this arrangement.


The latest iteration uses a 24V geared motor from an electrical bicycle with a 12 tooth 1/2" bike chain onto a DIY alloy sprocket attached to a DIY toothed pulley which drives the auto timing belt. This iteration runs very smoothly and quietly and is fairly powerful. Running the 24V motor on 12V makes it pretty bullet proof from an overload viewpoint.


If I build any more I will probably stay with the DIY toothed belt sprockets but use a good quality battery drill, maybe even a two speed so that I can have high gear for downwind and low for reaching when the response can be slower but needing more power.

[zengirl]

I don't know the cost, but how about a wind vane steering. I think the simplest you'll get. Ocean Navigator has an article of 25 yrs of wind vane steering. Quotes price of $1,000 and up. I think they are cheaper now. I don't know if it works with wheel.

[Chuck Hawley]

Originally Posted by Amani Jnana

Ouch! I just looked at it. My heart skipped a few beats. It's $2000+

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm guessing you don't quite understand how tight my budget is. Am I being unreasonable in looking for something in the $1000-$1500 range?

Looking at that system, I think I could do without the display screen.

I started out looking out at tiller pilots (too weak, not enough leverage, etc.), and I'm now looking at wheel pilots in order to keep costs low.

I don't like the extra junk attached to the wheel in an already tight space, but I'm poor and need a solution!

A.J.

So, in very general terms, you have a choice of an above-decks autopilot and a below-decks pilot, regardless of manufacturer or features. The drive unit of either needs to be matched to the type of steering you have. The control unit can be selected based on your needs (simpler would be cheaper, for example.) The Course Computer, if needed, is determined by the strength of your below-decks drive unit.

Having said that, your boat determines your choices to a great degree. In my experience of selling autopilots over about 30 years, below-decks pilots were real workhorses, requiring very little maintenance and serving their owners well. Above-deck pilots were subject to water intrusion (makes sense, doesn't it?) and were far weaker in thrust or torque due to their pill-bottle sized motors.

I'd like to point out that I have sailed to Hawaii twice with above-decks pilots and so I have some first-hand experience.

My strong, emphatic, heart-felt suggestion is that you get a properly-sized below-decks pilot with a simple control unit. All will be compatible with a NMEA signal, and you will love the reliability and the course-keeping ability, likely for the life of your boat. Don't go cheap, or hack something together.

You would be far better to put off the purchase and get the right pilot than to cobble something together. I would also monitor eBay for used components where someone is upgrading.

Cheers,

Chuck Hawley

[lamadriver]

1) From Port Klang to Phuket a windvane is useless and probably dangerous .

2) a windvane is way more expensive than AP. Youd be looking at 5-7K usd to ship one in and have it installed.

3) Ill be honest in that part of the world there is very little wind and you will be motoring a lot. Put the purchase on a CC and have it shipped to Langkawi. Espically s it sounds like you will be short handed. Once you get to Thailand and when you decide next year you really need one it will cost you 3 times to get on in Thailand and you will wait . There are also a handful of people who for little money help you install one in LGK. The advantage is it is realitivly inexpensive to ship to Langkawi and it is tax free

Ive been reading a bit through your posts. Im a bit confused as to why you are going to Phuket this time of year. when the sailing just round the corner on the other side of Malaysia is A++++ at that time and not crowed at all during this season.

Either way If you would like to chat about cruising Malaysia/ thailand and inbetween . Send me a PM. I can help with the learning curve a bit.

LD

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I was watching a vlog and the guy was praising his wheel pilot, Raymarine. Then one day when he was half way between Norway and the Shetland Islands his auto pilot broke down. That's whats wrong with wheel pilots. They are good in sheltered waters and for day sailing or sailing where one can put in for repairs if needed but I wouldn't want one on the open ocean. We see way to many threads on CF about broken wheel and tiller pilots.

The OP seems to be on Lake Seneca. I'm not sure about the need for an autopilot?

[Qayaq]

Wind vane with a cheap tiller pilot connected to it, you can use the vane when the winds right or go to tiller pilot if your vanes not handling down wind or motoring. Used this Med to NZ with an Aries and an ST4000. No failures and minimal power consumption , had a ST1000 ready to plug in if the ST4000 failed. Never used it. Boat was a wheel steered Amel 40.
My new to me boat is a Valiant 32, It has an ST4000 on the tiller and a monitor vane which I'll be connecting a tiller pilot to. Seems to me you get powerful AP with small current useage and minimal failure rate this way as the tiller pilot is under very little stress, could also control corrosion issues by fitting a car steering rack bellows to the pilot ram if you feel that might be a source of failure.
Benefits compared to a below decks unit is less power consumption, easy and cheap to carry a spare ST1000. Redundancy built in if your boat gets a power failure. If the vane has a way to be used as an emergency rudder you get that built in redundancy as well. It's win win IMHO.
Wouldn't use a wheel mounted unit, OK for marina to marina but not suited to offshore use.

[a64pilot]

OK, first an IP does not have a barn door rudder, not that there is anything wrong with one, just they are often unbalanced and it takes some force to hold them.
An IP has a balanced spade rudder, and therefore the forces are quite low comparatively, many IP's like mine have this tiny wheel and if the forces were not low, that little wheel would not work.
For less than $2K, that narrows your options, a lot.
I also assume being a 29' IP, that long crossings are not as likely as bigger boats, maybe a bad assumption as I am sure some may have circumnavigated.
Maybe a Ray wheel pilot is not a good choice, but there are a gazillion of them out there and I bet you could get one cheap since money is an object, maybe two.
Finally, I don't think it fair to compare a CPT to other wheel pilots, and if you order the cruisers spare, you can change the whole works out in just a couple of minutes with no tools.
I may yet get a "real" underdeck autopilot, but if I do I'll keep the CPT bracket and wheel drive mounted as a back up.

[Scott Berg]

another vote for the CPT; it's a truly great piece of gear and serves as primary for many boats and back up for many more

[lamadriver]

I know delivery captains who have their own and carry it with them as the plan "b" . You never see them used and even if you bought it for this trip you could turn it back on this form for a few hundred less than what you paid . May be a short term solution . Nice looking little boat , checked out your page . It will be perfect for that area of the world and further .

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The OP seems to be on Lake Seneca. I'm not sure about the need for an autopilot?

Read post 17.

[Pete7]

It would appear do able on an IP29. However, in the UK a windvane comes in at the same price as the RM Evo 100, well nearly anyway.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

You would be far better to put off the purchase and get the right pilot than to cobble something together. I would also monitor eBay for used components where someone is upgrading. Cheers,
Chuck Hawley

Chuck, excellent advice but as I am sure you are aware the price of a underdeck RM AP is twice that of the wheel pilot. To some of us that's the difference between no AP and fitting an AP but the wheel variant be it RM or CPT.

Sure the under deck will be great for crossing an ocean when its needed 24/7 for weeks on end, but coastal cruising? and if you are crossing an ocean in a 29ft yacht well the Neptune windvane comes in at £1600, that's half the under deck price of a RM AP. Which would you choose?

Oh and if you are not aware the price of old ST4000 and 3000 items on e bay is just astonishing. It was nearly the same price to buy ST4000 components on e bay as a new Wheel Pilot from RM

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Autohelm-S...EAAOSwHptY-S2j

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raymarine-...YAAOSw0hlZIgep