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Old 16-01-2022, 14:06   #1
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Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Hello Everyone,

I'm from Canada and a bit confused if I need a new callsign to use Amateur Radio in international waters.

I have an operations licence for using HAM Radio bands on land my call sign is VA3DKF. Under the Canadian rules there is a VE0 prefix for marine operation. What I'm confused with is, am I required to get a VE0 callsign when operating HF bands such as 14.300 mHz in international waters?

I would also like to participate in contesting from different grid squares when at sea. I emailed the Canadian Government and they've forwarded me to the following document. Which, made me more confused.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01226.html

Let me know what you think,

Thanks
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Old 16-01-2022, 18:12   #2
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

We haven't met a Canadian ham that wanted to do DX. Have known quite a few ve0's.

For the US, Maritime mobiles don't count for DX. So that would imply that could be the case for Canadians as well???? Can you hold two licenses concurrently, one to use while on the boat, and the other as a land mobile?

Man, it's like you'd need some kind of special dispensation.

I hope you can work it out.

What my Jim did, and our (US) rules allow this: Call sign on boat proves you are a ham. So, you apply in the country you are visiting for a reciprocal license. Then you can use the reciprocal and chat from Tonga or wherever "home"....but the guys who love DX can't count you, because you maritime mobile. Basically, he could still play "ham radio", but it doesn't count for your dx.

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Old 16-01-2022, 18:27   #3
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

No, you are not required to have a VE0 prefix when transmitting from international waters.
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Old 16-01-2022, 21:34   #4
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

But he wants to "play" the DX game. Normally, one has to arrange for a reciprocal license, and then participate in DX schedule. It is done on "land". We knew some maritime hams who did this from Tikopia--went clear to Gizo, then back upwind to Tikopia. Chief had given them permission.

However, if you are VK3xx, maritime mobile, the contact does not count for their contests. The OP's problem is a combination of Canadian radio bureaucracy and ham radio rules.

Ann
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Old 16-01-2022, 22:02   #5
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

From what I understand, you can use the VA3 or VE7 or whatever from international waters (at least I have and noone told me off) - the VE0 callsign is optional but can only be used 'when the amateur radio station is operated from a vessel that make international voyages.'

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf02102.html

My understanding that is that the VE0 can be used to impress other, more land-based HAMs which is about the limit of it's utility

It's not very clear though and I could be wrong

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Old 17-01-2022, 01:19   #6
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
But he wants to "play" the DX game. Normally, one has to arrange for a reciprocal license, and then participate in DX schedule. It is done on "land". We knew some maritime hams who did this from Tikopia--went clear to Gizo, then back upwind to Tikopia. Chief had given them permission.

However, if you are VK3xx, maritime mobile, the contact does not count for their contests. The OP's problem is a combination of Canadian radio bureaucracy and ham radio rules.

Ann
Well, not quite! Any m/m can work all the DX he wants, from any open ocean location (not in territorial waters). However, for the contact to count for such things as the DXCC award, the station must be on dry land. I've never understood that logic, but it has been so for a long time. Back in the late 80s we visited Tonga, and I took out a reciprocal license there, being issued the call sign A35JLC (IIRC). At that time there was only one, not very active ham in that country, and every time I went on the air I would soon be the center of a big pileup of hams wanting to add A35 to their country list. At the first opportunity I would announce that I was m/m and on a boat... and the pileup would magically disappear! A few of them didn't care and just wanted to talk to us, vicariously enjoying our adventure, and those we chatted with as much as possible.

Contests are subject to their own rules, and I'm not up on how that problem is addressed these days... likely not consistent between contests!

Anyhow I think the OP's question has been answered: the VE0 license is optional.

Jim
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Old 17-01-2022, 08:48   #7
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Might work for Field Day as an emergency operated station. LOL

(Class C) Mobile: Stations in vehicles capable of operating while in motion and normally operated in this manner. This includes maritime and aeronautical mobile. If the Class C station is being powered from a car battery or alternator, it qualifies for emergency power but does not qualify for the multiplier of 5, as the alternator/battery system constitutes a motor-driven generating system.
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Old 17-01-2022, 09:01   #8
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Get a portable rig, go ashore in your dinghy, and operate on the beach or under the shade of the nearest palm tree (which might be convenient for running up a wire antenna. You will need a reciprical arrangement with the country whose land you are using of course - many countries have agreements in place - check with your national amateur organization. So head for Tonga (after the dust settles and equipped with some emergency supplies for the locals who just got wiped out by an underwater volcano) and enjoy the pileup when you start operating from a beach in paradise. Operating from the beach was what I was advised by the US hams, as the need to operate from land is a standard rule for contesting.
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Old 17-01-2022, 09:12   #9
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fishstick View Post
...I have an operations licence for using HAM Radio bands on land my call sign is VA3DKF. Under the Canadian rules there is a VE0 prefix for marine operation. What I'm confused with is, am I required to get a VE0 callsign when operating...in international waters?
You already have a (land) STATION LICENSE with callsign VA3GKF.

The NORMAL indicator appended to a STATION CALLSIGN that was issued to a land-based station when that station is operating mobile on a boat in international water is "maritime mobile." When operating on the boat you would use the callsign VA3DLF/MM or "Maritime Mobile" but only when you were in international waters. If you were in Canadian territorial water, you would just operate at VA3DLF/Mobile, or perhaps append the prefix associated with the territory if on water outside of Ontario, such as VA3DLF/Mobile VE2 when in Quebec.

However, a Wikipedia article suggests otherwise, and from that reference one would infer you should use the callsign VA3DLF/VE0:

Quote:
"VE0" is for maritime mobile amateur transmissions.
Compare at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_s...#Amateur_radio

Note the footnote regarding VE0 callsigns:

Quote:
VE0 call signs are only intended for use when the amateur radio station is operated from a vessel that makes international voyages. First assigned in 1954, Canada is the only country to assign a special prefix to operators on its ships in international waters.
This comment cites this reference: http://www.coastalradio.org.uk/spud/spud/spud12.pdf

A search of this 107-page document really does not seem to confirm that a land station would use a /VE0 identifier in preference to using the /MM identifier.

The REAL answer is likely to be found by contacting the licensing authority in Canada for clarification. Generally on matters such as use of callsigns, the licensing authority is a better source of authoritative opinion than an on-line forum.
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Old 17-01-2022, 09:17   #10
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

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Originally Posted by continuouswave View Post
I am not expert on current Canadian licensing, but typically if you already have a STATION LICENSE and OPERATOR'S LICENSE from Canada, you can operate from your boat in international water.



You already have a (land) STATION LICENSE with callsing VA3GKF.



The NORMAL indicator appended to a STATION CALLSIGN that was issued to a land-based station when that operating is operating from a mobile station on a boat is "maritime mobile."



The VE-zero prefix is probably only intended to license amateur radio SHIP STATIONS.
Nothing to do with a "station" license. VA3GKF is the call sign related to the person holding the Amateur Radio Operator Certificate.
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Old 17-01-2022, 09:55   #11
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

I have an American and a Dutch HAM license and use the /mm like ka4cis/mm for the US callsign.

I don’t use the Dutch one much so looked at my license and it tells me to add /m (just one m) at the end but also the country that I am in as a prefix…

See the attached part of my license that is in multiple languages.

My callsign is PD0AAA (nice one don’t you think? ) so in International waters it would be PD0AAA/M but in US waters it becomes US/PD0AAA/M

Edit: they don’t recognize land vs maritime mobile so I would probably still use /MM
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Old 17-01-2022, 09:55   #12
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

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Nothing to do with a "station" license. VA3GKF is the call sign related to the person holding the Amateur Radio Operator Certificate.
An operator's license generally confers a certain set of operator privileges, such as what bands may be used, what modes can be used, and what power can be used. These are restricted to the operator.

A CALLSIGN is not assigned depending on who is the operator of a station. A callsign is assigned to a STATION owned by a particular licensee with particular operating authority.

The transmissions made from a licensed station do not change depending on who is actually operating the station. For example, if I visit the station W1AW, I do not get on the air from that station and identify the station with my own callsign.

Similarly, if my operator's license privileges restricted my operation to a particular band, mode, and power, I cannot operate (be the operator in control) of ANY station, my own or someone else's station, on bands, modes, and powers for which my own operator's license is not authorized.
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Old 17-01-2022, 10:06   #13
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

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An operator's license generally confers a certain set of operator privileges, such as what bands may be used, what modes can be used, and what power can be used. These are restricted to the operator.

A CALLSIGN is not assigned depending on who is the operator of a station. A callsign is assigned to a STATION owned by a particular licensee with particular operating authority.

The transmissions made from a licensed station do not change depending on who is actually operating the station. For example, if I visit the station W1AW, I do not get on the air from that station and identify the station with my own callsign.

Similarly, if my operator's license privileges restricted my operation to a particular band, mode, and power, I cannot operate (be the operator in control) of ANY station, my own or someone else's station, on bands, modes, and powers for which my own operator's license is not authorized.
OP is asking RE Canada not USA; somewhat different here in Canada:

Traditionally, amateur radio operators were issued two separate authorizations; an Amateur Radio Operator Certificate and a radio station licence. The Amateur Radio Operator Certificate was issued for life and had no fee associated with it, while the radio station licence was issued on a yearly basis and a licence renewal fee was charged.

Effective April 1, 2000, Industry Canada has combined these documents into one authorization, the Amateur Radio Operator Certificate. This certificate is the sole authorization required to operate amateur radio apparatus in the amateur radio service.

Although it is no longer necessary for amateurs to renew their licence annually, they are required to inform Industry Canada of any changes in their mailing address.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01862.html
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Old 17-01-2022, 10:08   #14
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

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Originally Posted by Alpha Fishstick View Post
I emailed the Canadian Government and they've forwarded me to the following document. Which, made me more confused.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01226.html

That document is a good reference. My interpretation is you perhaps COULD apply for a second STATION LICENSE and get a STATION CALLSIGN for the amateur radio station on your boat, so long as the station would only be operated when the boat was not in Canadian territory and thus was in international waters.

Maybe you can contact that authority for clarification.
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Old 17-01-2022, 10:14   #15
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Re: Amateur Radio Licence on a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sv_pelagia View Post
OP is asking RE Canada not USA; somewhat different here in Canada:

Traditionally, amateur radio operators were issued two separate authorizations; an Amateur Radio Operator Certificate and a radio station licence. The Amateur Radio Operator Certificate was issued for life and had no fee associated with it, while the radio station licence was issued on a yearly basis and a licence renewal fee was charged.

Effective April 1, 2000, Industry Canada has combined these documents into one authorization, the Amateur Radio Operator Certificate. This certificate is the sole authorization required to operate amateur radio apparatus in the amateur radio service.

Although it is no longer necessary for amateurs to renew their licence annually, they are required to inform Industry Canada of any changes in their mailing address.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01862.html
Thanks for the cited reference. My interpretation: the station license is now issued for life and is combined with the operator's license into a single document or license. But the concept of the operator's license and the CALLSIGN is still as always: the CALLSIGN is associated with the station owned by the licensee of the operator's license.
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