AIS INSTEAD of radar?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

...



Not having radar is like driving your car in the dark - WITHOUT HEADLIGHTS.

Indeed!

[SteveSadler]

AIS may be more important as shipping is a bigger hazard than boats that don't use it.
But I've experienced fleets of fishing vessels that did not use AIS. Radar has many other benefits. Given the minimal cost any blue water sailor should have both.

[JPA Cate]

Jim and I came from SF, CA, so, of course, we were familiar with the idea of using radar in the fog. It was one of the first things we added when we were self-insured.

Now, segue a long way to last week. Due to excessive smoke from bushfires (as forest fires are called in Oz), we had about 100 m. visibility, a tad more than 300 ft. We could not "see" the shoreline from where we were anchored, with our mark one eyeballs, but the radar sure could! We used it all day, the smoke was that dense (we had a good rain overnight last night, ~ 10 in., and now it is spotlessly clear again, a wonder to behold.)

However, much as we've used the radar to avoid squalls, keep stand-off zones on fringing reefs, and to try to see things in limited visibility, we never viewed it as an asset in smoke (never thought of it), and yet it was there, and it was a good help, in a place where we've never needed it before! However, we are sailors from before the days of GPS, and only use radar going into already known anchorages at night. We do not rely on it in strange to us locations. It is way better to heave to offshore and wait for good light, than risk the boat on an invisible-at-night bommie. Ymmv

Some of the more recent cruisers than us seem to be quite comfortable with crowd sourced data nav programs that work on smart phones. They also ran on a known reef. Here's another opinion about modern electronics: they are complicated, thus have many failure modes. I do not wish to trust our safety to such frail objects. Again, ymmv.

Ann

[Tillsbury]

My Vesper XB8000 is used continuously. I wouldn’t sail without one. And, of course, it provides all the data to my old raymarine mfd and IPads/iPhones.

A radar is very useful, and performs different jobs. But it’s only used occasionally. I can cope without a radar for now but will be getting a new one eventually for longer voyages.

I’m not sure about “instead of”, but I am firmly of the camp that ais is a necessity and radar a useful additional device.

[SaltyMetals]

Full heartedly agree with many of the prev comments.

Callisto, if you only ever had one or the other you might convince yrself that only one of them was sufficient but that is a delusion. They do different things as earlier comments have explained.

My 15 yr old radar died last yr so i am replacing it w the new Raymarine Doppler radar. In addition i am mounting it on the self-levelling scanstrut bracket. I found that in the past, when heeled, my radar was not picking up signals bec one side was pointing up in the sky and the other down into the nearby water, hence my preference for the scanstrut. Outputs from both my AIS transponder and the radar feed directly into my MFD at the wheel.

On the subject of fishing boats, i can only comment on what i have seen across Biscay and in the Med but very often i have found that fishing boats seem to prefer to have their TX OFF so that way they do not show their competition where they are fishing. I have often found that when i get closer they switch their AIS TX ON for a minute or so but you cannot rely on it. It is safer to assume that fishing boats do not show up on AIS (but of course they will show up on radar).

So dig deep into yr pockets Calllisto and install both. Then you will appreciate that they are two different things, neither of which you could ever be without.

[Wayne hoath]

It’s mostly been said but to reiterate if you have AIS overlay on your radar you will see that the AIS positions are somewhat behind the actually positions. Mostly that doesn’t matter so much but I’d rather know where something really is as opposed to where it last said it was. Both is best. If choosing one then radar wins out.

[Cheechako]

Track this on your AIS:

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by callistov42

One of the electronics guys I was talking to suggested that if I installed AIS I really didn't need to replace the radar.

I think that is very, very bad advice. I would never equip with AIS instead of radar. In addition to, yes, but instead of, never.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Track this on your AIS: [emoji3]

Great illustration to make our point Cheechako![emoji106]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Track this on your AIS: [emoji3]

...at night.

[darrelweb]

A very good friend of mine who sails the Pacific Nothwest, Puget Sound, and points north to Alaska, and summers in Canada, and also has a 100 ton license.
I asked her years ago what l needed on my boat for trips up to the far inside passage: her answer was.....
AIS and Radar.....
Must have, mainly due to tugs pulling barges and FOG.
My 2 cents worth and l love sailing at night...
Darrel

[CarlF]

If the question is “AIS receiver” or “radar”? Then radar wins easily.

But AIS receivers are a stupid idea - they miss the whole point of AIS which is to transmit your location, course, and speed.

On commercial ships, AIS is now the primary anti-collision system - not radar. Why would I want to be less visible to a tired mate on the bridge of a 900 ft container ship?

In areas with lots of commercial traffic, I think not transmitting AIS is as foolish as running without navigation lights.

[Orion Jim]

I have Doppler Radar and a Class B AIS. As a back up I have a VHF with an AIS receiver. Modern electronics are a blessing.

[Reefmagnet]

Using AIS as a substitute for RADAR is like using Google Earth as a substitute for maritime charts. Sure, it'll do pretty much the same job (and even better, sometimes) for the majority of the time. It's the time beyond that majority that presents somewhat of a problem.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by CarlF

If the question is “AIS receiver” or “radar”? Then radar wins easily.

But AIS receivers are a stupid idea - they miss the whole point of AIS which is to transmit your location, course, and speed.

On commercial ships, AIS is now the primary anti-collision system - not radar. Why would I want to be less visible to a tired mate on the bridge of a 900 ft container ship?

In areas with lots of commercial traffic, I think not transmitting AIS is as foolish as running without navigation lights.

Incorrect.

On a commercial ship the standard MK 1 eyeball is the no 1 anti coilsion aid.
Radar the No 2 anit colision aid. Using ARPA.
Tother radar No 3.

Some commercial ship radars may have AIS intergrated, many do not.
ECDIS May have intergrated AIS but ECDIS is not usually used for colision avoidance.
AIS is a vessel identification and communication aid not an anti collision aid.
Most commercial ships will not be primarily relying on AIS for collision avoidance.

If you want to use AIS for colision avoidance. Up to you.