Zyrex Bottom Paint

[johnsje]

I and two of my friends attended the 2011 boat show">Miami Boat Show and visited the Zyrex Coatings Booth where we talked to Michell and Steve Mica owners of Zyrex Coatings as well as the man who developed Zyrex and then sold the company to the Mica's. Then, and in every conversation on the phone afterwards with the Mica's they assured me any growth would not be able to hold on the bottom of a boat that had Zyrex applied to it and if any did it would come off when the boat was run. I explained that I kept my boat in saltwater year round and they indicated that the product had been used in Califorina for years and that there was a boat in Tampa, Florida that had Zyrex on it's bottom with no problems. So I reluctantly ordered the epoxy and rollers. After receiving the order and thinking about their product, I was really was having reservations about my decision of using Zyrex. I called and talked to Steve and he assured me that the product would work well in saltwater and not to worry. With his assurance I decided to keep the product and use it.
Cortez Cove Marina in Cortez, Florida removed all the old paint by sandblasting mixed the the two part epoxy per Zyrex instructions included, and applied 6 coats of Zyrex. The bottom looked great and smooth while on the hard. The boat was put back in the water on April 21, 2011 and taken back to Sarasota. On May 3, 2011 I left on a 60 day cruise to Key West and then up the East Coast of Florida. Our second stop after leaving Sarasota was in Naples, Florida. Next stop Key West. When leaving Naples I attempted to get the boat on plane and up to cruising speed 17kts. The boat would not plane and only reached 12kts. When I arrived in Key West I had the bottom checked by Ray Bonner of Mirror Image Boat Service. He said the bottom was covered with barnacles and growth. He spent 3 to 4 hours cleaning the bottom at a cost of $225.00. May 31, 2011 San Augustine, FL had the bottom checked by Pier 88 found growth on the bottom and had the bottom cleaned again, $180.00.
During this time I tried repeatedly to contact Zyrex by phone and got no response. Then I received an email from them that said their chemist was working on a new epoxy that had anti-fouling properties in it and they would send me the new epoxy when it was ready at no cost. You would think that they would at least offer the $1,600 back for the cost of the epoxy and cleaning.

[twistedtree]

Ouch. I feel for you. Failed experiments aren't so bad when they are cheap, but the costly ones are very unfortunate.

This got me thinking about less costly ways to experiment with new bottom paints. I wonder about dangling a fender or small 4x4 over the stern and taking it along for the ride for a while might help? That would expose it to still water as well as wash.

By the way, based on their representations to you about the paints performance, you could probably go after them in small claims court, or at least file a report with the BBB.

[Unicorn Dreams]

Sounds like a really good product to pour down the drain, ezcept barnacles might plug the pipes...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by David M

Moderators note: I had to delete the name of the product so Cruisers Forum does not get named in a law suit. Also, we do not allow discussion about problems people have with specific products mostly because there are always two sides to a story and CruisersForum does not want to be the conduit for a dispute between a member and a manufacturer. This is not what CruisersForum is about.

I chose not to eliminate the thread because I feel it is important for people to know the following about bottom paint.....

If someone did invent a non-toxic bottom paint that prevented growth from attaching to the hull it would be enormous news. The news would be in all the shipping industry publications and in all the yachting magazines.

For the sake of the environment, hopefully there will be such a product one day. For now, anyone who claims this is possible is selling snake oil. Nobody has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that such a product exists.

We have had good results on the bottoms of many of Seattle's bigger racing boats with e-paint's No-Foul ZDF, now known as E-paint ZO. We used this product on Neptune's Car and several other big race boats. It is non-toxic and provides anti-fouling by using zinc oxide in the coating which slowly degrades similar to a zinc anode. It was rated number one in antifouling properties for the first year, but quickly falls off the effectiveness scale on year two. There are non-toxic products that work well, they just happen to be very expensive to apply and mantain. Not saying it's as effective as copper, but it works surprisingly well.

E Paint Company - antifouling environmentally friendly boat paint

[sailstoo]

FYI, Practical Sailor, www.practical-sailor.com, does extensive testing of, among other things, bottom paint in a number of environments (warm seawater, cooler seawater & freshwater) on a regular basis. I'm not shilling for 'em but they take no advertising (a la Consumer Reports) and put a pretty fine point on their tests

[thinwater]

Johnsje:

Share the info with Practical Sailor. They will test it and give it a " very poor" if that is what it earns.

The moral of the story ... other than some forums being more touchy-feely than others ... is this: if it sounds too good to be true, wait for 3rd party test results.

I'm sure we've all bought some junk before; thanks for sharing.

[roverhi]

"We have had good results on the bottoms of many of Seattle's bigger racing boats with e-paint's No-Foul ZDF, now known as E-paint ZO. We used this product on Neptune's Car and several other big race boats. It is non-toxic and provides anti-fouling by using zinc oxide in the coating which slowly degrades similar to a zinc anode. It was rated number one in antifouling properties for the first year, but quickly falls off the effectiveness scale on year two. There are non-toxic products that work well, they just happen to be very expensive to apply and mantain. Not saying it's as effective as copper, but it works surprisingly well."

Why do you think that zinc is any better than copper for the environment. First think there is little real evidence that copper based boat bottom paint is significantly effecting the marine environment.

Second, the E-Paint ZO is grossly more expensive than the Interlux paint I'm currently using. At something over $2,000 a bottom job, the Epaint is only $4,000 more expensive to use than copper based paint. Not an insignificant amount, in fact probably enough to convince a lot of people to sell their boat.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Why do you think that zinc is any better than copper for the environment. First think there is little real evidence that copper based boat bottom paint is significantly effecting the marine environment.

t.

the zinc product is approved by the EPA, so it's not likely together banned. It is less toxic than copper

Zinc OMADINE® products are highly active, broad spectrum antimicrobial agents that are registered around the world for use in both personal care as well as industrial product applications. In the U.S., Zinc OMADINE® products are approved for use by the EPA and allowed by the FDA. Zinc OMADINE® fungicide-algaecide is the zinc complex of pyrithione. Zinc OMADINE® fungicide-algaecide is the active ingredient in some of the leading antidandruff shampoo products around the world, and its proven combination of efficacy and safety-in-use has made it the world's leading anti-dandruff agent for more than 30 years. Zinc OMADINE® fungicide-algaecide is listed in the FDA Final Monograph on Dandruff and Seborrheic Dermatitis as a Category I substance (i.e. generally recognized as safe and effective). Zinc OMADINE® products are available in Industrial and Cosmetic grades, and in powder and in dispersion forms. Two types of dispersion are available: General and Fine Particle Size (FPS).

[thinwater]

... because human and marine toxicity are barely related.

* Ethylene glycol is poisonous to people but nontoxic in a marine environment (yes there is COD--differnt subject, rather like saying you can choke on the bottle the pills came in).

* Choclate is notoriously bad for dogs, which love it.

* Hot pepper will burn your lips but birds don't notice them.

I have noticed papers questioning the fate of Zn based products in the marine environment, since the break down products are not simple. I think it is far too early to make sweaping statements. One thing we do know is that Zn is lethal to a broad spectrum of fish and marine life (I have run marine toxicity tests on industrial efluent in my work).

[Pete7]

Johnsje, looking at the Zyrex website it would appear to be an epoxy resin designed to water proof a hull and protect it from scratches. It doesn't say it's an antifouling paint. Therefore I think you have bought and applied the wrong product if you wanted an antifouling.

Epoxy is a good way to protect a hull from blisters or damage particularly when using a trailer sailer. You haven't wasted $1600 because the hull bottom is now protected. Indeed my yacht has an epoxy coating and I am very grateful for it as it helps to reduce the possibility of blisters by water absorption.

However, if you wish to keep you powerboat in seawater then you will now need to apply a proper antifoul paint to the hull. You may need to prep the Zyrex if it has a smooth finish so the paint properly adheres to the hull.

Pete

[senormechanico]

Thinwater,

So what's next, banning our zincs?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Thinwater,

So what's next, banning our zincs?

We have been requied to remove glavinized parts from numerous wastewater structures that see only intermitant flow, because the leaching is too great. But I think not; the average boat goes through far less anode Zn than it does bottom Cu, and Cu is generally more toxic.

Toxicty is actually a requirment of zincs; otherwise they will be covered with marine growth and do nothing. Are there ways around this? Yes, but they all cost $$$ and add complexity.

Don't think boaters are being singled out. Industrial wastewater dischargers are commonly seeing Low ppb limits and they are very painful to meet; your boat almost certainly discharges more copper than a fair sized factory.

[tightlinesmia]

Hello Johnsje

I too fel for the Zyrex scam and twice. I saw it at the MIA boat show in 2010 and had it put on my boat. After just 4-6 weeks in the South FL water my boat had inches of growth. SEE PICS.

After a year of back and forth with Zyrex they said that there was this new formula for the boats in warm water that were having issues. I then had it put on, they sent me the new formula at no cost. After just 3 weeks it was worse than the first. I have emailed them sent pictures etc.. and guess now they will not reply.

I have since filed a consumer complaint with Illinois Attorny General Lisa Madigan and the Consumer Protection Division (312) 814-4591 I would suggest to everyone that has been had by Zyrex to do the same.

I am also contacting a consumer products lawyer to see about a class action lawsuit because I know there must be more of us out there that have fallen for their scam.

If you can beleive it they are coming to the MIA boat show this wknd.

[fstbttms]

I have been cleaning boat bottoms in the Bay Area for over 18 years and have never come across (or even heard of) a boat that had this product on it. Which means it is not in widespread use. My advice to anyone when it comes to unproven anti fouling coatings- Never be the guinea pig.