Would You Buy an Ex-Charter Boat ?

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Tashtego

Survey Survey Survey!!

Hear him! Hear him!

Insist also on thermographic imaging to ensure that any well-covered 'issues' (e.g. a previous crash/crs!acked hull!) are revealed.

Consider also the various survey briefs, viz. hull, engineering, rig and so on. Covering all of these bases would be the safest way to go (with any vessel, ex-charter or otherwise) although there will also be a cost issue vis-a-vis the vessel's asking price.

We screened ex-charter vessels out of our search because we were looking for a near-new vessel with very little use/wear, but that made our search much more difficult.

Horses for courses...each to his/her own.

[Tim Schaaf]

As an owner of both a former charter boat and a former private boat, I would say that you can potentially get a much better value out of the former charter boat. That said, you do need to work for it. Otherwise, it can be a disaster. If the charter boat was in a "first tier" fleet, it may have been in the charter company's interest to under-maintain it, due to the nature of the fixed monthly payment. Second tier fleets, and first tier fleets that pay you a percentage of the gross, and then charge for maintenance, have an interest in over-maintaining a boat. So find out what deal the owner had with the charter company, get a scrupulous survey, exercise lots of patience, and insist on everything being taken care of. The time that this last will take will help reveal any other problems.

It takes work to get a good former charter boat, but you can get a really good one that is a really good value. On the other hand, if you are just expecting a great deal to come your way, you may be disappointed. In many ways, you get exactly what you deserve, one way or the other.

[DRS]

Condition vs. price is far more important than history. Get it surveyed. I would also say it depends on the charter area. The Pacific North West has a far shorter charter season than the carib so by definition there is less usage on the boat.

[SmartMove]

My husband and I bought a charter boat. However, I have to say this was not our intention when we started looking for a boat to go cruising in -- we thought we wanted an older Hylas. We knew we wanted to start in the Caribbean and started looking for boats to buy there. BVI Yacht Sales had a boat listed that we were convinced we wanted -- to make a long story short, they showed us a former Sunsail charter boat that we initially balked at. Unable to afford the expenses, when the boat came out of charter the owner put it on the hard. When we saw the boat the bank was about to foreclose on it.

We expected to see a boat that had been beat to death. What we saw was a boat in exceptional condition -- our only worries were the hours on the engine. However, a very thorough survey showed the boat to be in excellent condition and the great price we got (given the eminent foreclosure) offset those worries about the engine. Three years later we have no regrets.

Yes, we are spending money to equip the boat for bluewater cruising (charter boats are very basic), but we are still coming out ahead. We love the boat and how it sails. The interior layout would not have been my first choice (3 cabins & 3 heads) -- I would have opted for the owners version with one less head and a u-shaped galley. But maybe there was a greater force at work, I now have a head for guests and one for the litter box for the two cats that I was not expecting would accompany us.

We love our Beneteau 473, even though we have been told we should not go bluewater cruising in a production boat -- did you know they are held together with glue? Don't get me started . . .

[svBeBe]

We sold a Moorings Beneteau 461 in 2005. We sold it fast for 50% of our original cash price. Moorings has a Phase-out Process on the boats in their charter fleet. We sold the boat to a surveyor who spent 2 days surveying the boat. BTW, it was not his first Beneteau purchase. He had a few things on his survey list...Moorings repaired them in a few minutes...we closed the sale the same day that Moorings completed the Phase-out (one of our stipulations for the low price to him).

We were happy about the price because after the sale we were cash ahead on the boat (received more cash than we paid, counting the revenue received from the Moorings). He was happy about the price because he bought it for less than the going price. He still has the boat and is still very happy with it.

My recommendation is to network with some Moorings owners and see if you can do what we did by buying direct as soon as the boat phases out. We met our buyer through the Beneteau Owners Group.

Best,

Bill

[Tim Schaaf]

Uh, SmartMove, most blue water cruises ARE done in production boats! And, most charter boats get from the manufacturer to the charter base on their own bottoms.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Yes. But I probably won't!

But not blindly and would depend on my circumstances / wants, including boat location.

[boatman61]

I bought a 2001 Bene 331 from Moorings (Road Harbour) in Dec 2006 and apart from the smaller engine than normal and a few annoyances I discovered later like the anchor winch had been filled with silicone to save on expense when the washers went I was very happy with her... took her to St Martin where I fitted her out with a s/s custom wind/solar arch that also served as davits for the dinghy... panels and gene... new dinghy and 5hp ob... fixed niggles then solo'd to Portugal...
Great boat for a total cost of just under $70K..... sailed her for nearly 3yrs... till the world went ass over tit..
Would I do it again... In a heartbeat..
where's me lottery tickets...

[SmartMove]

Originally Posted by Tim Schaaf

Uh, SmartMove, most blue water cruises ARE done in production boats! And, most charter boats get from the manufacturer to the charter base on their own bottoms.

Yes I know. That was a statement I overheard during a break at a bluewater sailing seminar. A guy attending the seminar asked the speaker what he thought about cruising on a Beneteau. The speaker replied he would never take a production boat offshore because they were mostly held together with glue ... i.e. of inferior quality and generally not sound boats.

[Zanshin]

I've had 2 ex-charter boats (a Sunsail Jeanneau 43DS and a Moorings Beneateau Cyclades 43) and I'd certainly opt for another ex-charter boat if I were in the market for a used boat.
The key, as stated earlier in this thread is careful selection and a good survey. While charter boats see a lot more use than private vessels, they do get constant maintenance as well. They see a lot of wear and tear, but most of that is cosmetic.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by SmartMove

Yes I know. That was a statement I overheard during a break at a bluewater sailing seminar. A guy attending the seminar asked the speaker what he thought about cruising on a Beneteau. The speaker replied he would never take a production boat offshore because they were mostly held together with glue ... i.e. of inferior quality and generally not sound boats.

There is no reason to correct statements and beliefs like this, I don't want to see second hand European yachts suddenly shoot up in value. Thankfully there are large numbers of sailors who prefer long keeled older yachts.

Pete

[SmartMove]

I didn't, but I felt bad for the getting the bad advice.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by SmartMove

The speaker replied he would never take a production boat offshore because they were mostly held together with glue ... i.e. of inferior quality and generally not sound boats.

The speaker's opinions were just that, opinions...and as for the "not sound boats" and with the greatest respect to Pete7, the remark is so far from reasonable that correction is called for.

We logged >14000nm so far on our production boat...and we know many others who have logged much more. There is a HUGE chorus of experienced sailors out there (out here!) who are very, very confident of the seaworthiness offshore of their production boats.

[gixerjen]

Not sure how relevant this is, and I suppose it depends entirely upon your budget for a boat other than an ex charter, but, when buying cars I would always rather a high mileage vehicle than something that's hardly used. (That's mainly because I run classics, and anything that's not used will be seized, or fail the moment you give it any serious use - bearings etc don't like being stood.)

But then cars, like boats I imagine, are things you can't put labels on like that and each case has to be judged on it's own merits. How many people do you know who've bought the so called perfect boat and it's been nothing but trouble from the start? And vice versa, the old nail that's kept on going? Get a good surveyor and you're giving yourself a decent start at least.....

[bene505]

I bought a 2000 Beneteau 505, 3+ years ago. Her original owner was Moorings. We are the 3rd owner.

I asked the surveyor to look for close for any crashes into the dock and to look over the 5,000 hour Perkins Sabre. (Not sure, it may have been replaced, since these boats didn't come with that engine. So the previous owner may have kept the old hour meter and put a new engine in.)

The layout was exactly what we needed for our large family. She's a great boat that sails very well. No dock rash, but no real instruments either (which was fine by me).

Regards,
Brad