Would like to hire some one to write a sailing article

[Jolly Roger]

I’ve been an active member of CF for 14 years, but always in ‘general sailing’ and I never bothered to explore other categories. Now, having time on my hands, (as I suspect, like most other members), I decided to look at ‘our community’. Wow!
As a boating writer for US, UK & Aus magazines, I went straight to the thread by the OP who wants to hire a writer—for a pittance.
For once in my life, I actually don’t have much to add to the discussion. It has all already been said, on both sides of the argument.
I would just like to say I’m squarely on the side of Mike Oreilly, JPCate, Dave Lochner and Steve DAntonio, et al, for the pro’ writers.
(Nice to meet you here Steve, we’ve appeared in GOB together a few times.)
The trouble is chaps, you’re flogging a dead horse. There will always be people who will write for less, be it though hardship or vanity, or everything in between. Whatever protestations are put forward won’t change that.
We just need to keep doing what we do, and bugger the rest of ‘em.
Jolly Roger, otherwise known, (to all my lovely editors), as Roger Hughes.

[Jolly Roger]

Here is a quote from John Ruskin, the Victorian writer and philosopher, which I think should be born in mind by this OP.

“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and people who consider price alone are that man's lawful prey.”

[letsgetsailing3]

"hope they realise they are stealing bread from the mouths of we professionals...???"

Sorry, I disagree with that sentiment. If there's no difference between your product and that of an amateur, don't expect it to put any food in your mouth. It's certainly not stealing.

If you're a professional and can put out a better product, and you can find a market for your services, then great. You certainly can't criticize someone with lesser skills selling their product for less. Your product needs to be worth the difference in price.

Amateurs are in a different market. It's up to you to distinguish your product.

[bioman]

Sure, PM me. I've sailed and cruised for 25 years, and published a handful of articles. I need the experience.

[WolfgangSeaLife]

See my books on Amazon or Kindle, by Wolfgang Berg.
60 years of sailing experience or any kind boat, every island, fixed everything,
raced and scuba dived. Presently own an Endeavour Ketch E43
Wolfgang@Pioneer-Research.com

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I get that there's been a general devaluation in writing and writers. Technology has made it easy to be a "creator" these days. There's more "content" being made than ever. Most of it is shyte, but there's more of it.

The consumers of this content generally don't seem to care, and neither do the publishers. In the "free" world of Internet distribution, most providers of content only care about clicks.

I get all that. What I don't get is why a writer who apparently values their own work would sell themselves so cheaply. Especially here in this crowd which is hardly hurting for cash. If you're wealthy enough to own a boat, then the peanuts on offer here means next to nothing. So surely it's not about the money.

So why do it?

If it's a portfolio you want, then as an editor, let me say up front editors don't care much about what you've done. They care about what you can do. A history of work helps establish that, but evidence that you can produce the desired work, to the desired specs, is what an editor is really after.

And I can tell you, having a stack of digital tear sheets from questionable publications means squat. They are as valueless as the fee on offer.

So why do it? I'm honestly curious to hear from those who have stepped up. Why?

Why?

Many reasons I'm sure. I can tell you what has motivated me. I have sold several articles to sailing magazines (Sail, Cruising Outpost, Southwinds). I was paid amounts others have mentioned in this thread as being appropriate for a skilled amateur, but the money did not matter at all. I would have done it for the $40 the OP offered. The reason was that I enjoyed doing it. I enjoyed the planning, the writing, the photography. I enjoyed the challenge of getting something published in a national magazine starting with a cold call. I enjoyed having a magazine show up in my mailbox, flipping it open and seeing an article I had written and I enjoyed knowing that other people would be reading what I had written.

I am surprised that you would not expect this sort of answer, and I see nothing wrong with a person such as myself taking money that would have otherwise gone to a professional. I sewed the dodger, bimini, etc. on my last boat, not because I couldn't afford to have it done professionally, but because I enjoyed doing it. Think of all those dollars that didn't go to the professional at the canvas shop. Shame on me.

[AlanT]

This has been a great thread. It has a bit of everything in it! There are moderately offended writing pros who feel the offer debases their craft; enthusiastic amateurs keen to get their names out in the world, and many simply wanting to share their experiences. There is also quite a bit of cynicism - and this is what I choose to address.

Writing is an art. At its basic level it's a craft, with rules of grammar and punctuation, at its best it is art - It paints a picture or tells a story or enables the reader to envision an experience. My wife is a painter, moderately well known. Her works sell for $1,200 to $2,500 in general and she regularly wins best of show at regional art shows. She paints what she is compelled to paint, she would paint the same if nothing ever sold, because it is her passion. We do not, could not, live on her income. A $1,200 painting contains about $200 of materials and on an hourly rate works out at about $20 an hour. Other artists sell similar art for $500. They are less well known but also talented. No one is making any money at these levels, they are indulging their passions, improving their craft. Should my wife keep all her paintings unless she can sell them for, say $7,500 or so which would represent a living wage? Of course not. To create is liberating.

The true pros have agents, they focus on profitable 'lines' and a few, a very few, do extraordinarily well. The rest take their pleasure from the finished product, and the occasional nod at an art show. I feel that there are some similarities here with the writing world.

[south4320]

Professional doesn't always mean better. I'm about to rip out the exhaust system on my boat which was installed by a professional. Unfortunately the exhaust leaves the engine and goes uphill. When the engine stops water in the exhaust runs back to the mixer which will eventually corrode through from water lying in it and allow the water to run back into the engine causing an expensive breakdown.
Yes I could afford to hire another professional to fix it for me but a lot of us get pleasure and satisfaction from doing the job ourselves. Its not always about the money. I'd much rather be working on the boat than playing golf but each to their own.

[Hunterdog]

I’ve written dozens of stories, which my circle of friends and thousands of followers seem to love. They send me lots of great feedback, and I’ve made new friends whom I have now met around the world. All for simply sharing my stories. I’m a rich man indeed.

And now someone wants to pay a guy like me, who is just sharing a life experience, up front? Wow. Awesome.

Back in the day I was a builder in California. Did you know in the 60’s, and 70’s it was almost impossible to even source and purchase the tools required to work on a home? Just finding a ‘professional grade Skilsaw’ required having access to stores where only the ‘trades’ would do business. If the ‘state’ did not bestow upun thee a ‘license’, no tools could be had because the tradestores protected the trades....Home Depot did not exist.
The DIY revolution was a function of access.
The 90’s internet revolution did same for the publisher/writer.
In fact, if you read back thru even this little thread, its damn near as entertaining as one might find in a glossy mag at the chandlery.
I especially love reading from the folks who claim they make $$$$ per word. Keep on writin!!!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Hunterdog

... Back in the day I was a builder in California. Did you know in the 60’s, and 70’s it was almost impossible to even source and purchase the tools required to work on a home? Just finding a ‘professional grade Skilsaw’ required having access to stores where only the ‘trades’ would do business. If the ‘state’ did not bestow upun thee a ‘license’, no tools could be had because the tradestores protected the trades....Home Depot did not exist...

In the late 60's, I purchase my Skill 'worm-gear' circular saw at my neighborhood mom & pop hardware store. Also bought a hammer-style Hilti Gun, a powder actuated nail setter, there. This was BEFORE I began my electrical apprenticeship.

[letsgetsailing3]

The irony, of course, is that many of the folks who claim that amateur writers are stealing work from the professionals are also folks who work on their own boats...

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by AlanT

This has been a great thread. It has a bit of everything in it! There are moderately offended writing pros who feel the offer debases their craft; enthusiastic amateurs keen to get their names out in the world, and many simply wanting to share their experiences. There is also quite a bit of cynicism - and this is what I choose to address.

Writing is an art. At its basic level it's a craft, with rules of grammar and punctuation, at its best it is art - It paints a picture or tells a story or enables the reader to envision an experience. My wife is a painter, moderately well known. Her works sell for $1,200 to $2,500 in general and she regularly wins best of show at regional art shows. She paints what she is compelled to paint, she would paint the same if nothing ever sold, because it is her passion. We do not, could not, live on her income. A $1,200 painting contains about $200 of materials and on an hourly rate works out at about $20 an hour. Other artists sell similar art for $500. They are less well known but also talented. No one is making any money at these levels, they are indulging their passions, improving their craft. Should my wife keep all her paintings unless she can sell them for, say $7,500 or so which would represent a living wage? Of course not. To create is liberating.

The true pros have agents, they focus on profitable 'lines' and a few, a very few, do extraordinarily well. The rest take their pleasure from the finished product, and the occasional nod at an art show. I feel that there are some similarities here with the writing world.

The issue I have with your viewpoint is it presumes that writing is a singular thing like (art) painting. That's like saying all books are like novels. They're not. A how-to has very very little in common with a novel.

I'm not hardcore. I worked in publishing before and know that one company might pay X while another can only afford Y. It was especially an issue in the old days when buying photography for covers. A pro would want $1000+ for onetime use, a "talented amateur" would let you have it for $500 and unlimited rights of reproduction. Who do you think I bought from?

But I'd never have bought it for $50.

I see lots of opportunity to get your name out there as a non-ficton writer. If you want exposure write for your own blog, publish your own stuff, submit to any and every magazine you can find and see what the rates are. But the more you give it away for chicken feed, the more you undervalue your worth (and others as well, but that's not the main issue) and you will likely learn nothing to advance your craft. You recognize that the OP was looking to monetize your efforts right? And is unlikely to spend much on editing/fact checking/proofing etc...

I read enough incomprehensible cr#p on the so-called professional outlets but they are at least making a decent fee out of it—why should we put more of it out there and fill the pockets of someone else?

Writing fiction is a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

[south4320]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

The irony, of course, is that many of the folks who claim that amateur writers are stealing work from the professionals are also folks who work on their own boats...

Exactly, Apparently if we do jobs ourselves we are being resourceful and self sufficient unless its a job in which I'm a professional in which case you are "stealing from me". I can't understand why some folks who feel that way give advice in other threads on how to undertake jobs yourself. If they were consistent they would always advise "Get a professional".

[StuM]

Originally Posted by south4320

Exactly, Apparently if we do jobs ourselves we are being resourceful and self sufficient unless its a job in which I'm a professional in which case you are "stealing from me". I can't understand why some folks who feel that way give advice in other threads on how to undertake jobs yourself. If they were consistent they would always advise "Get a professional".

It's not a case of professional v DIY.



It's more like get a professional or get a backyard mechanic who grossly undercuts established businesses because he doesn't pay tax, rent a workshop, pay insurance etc, etc

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by south4320

Exactly, Apparently if we do jobs ourselves we are being resourceful and self sufficient unless its a job in which I'm a professional in which case you are "stealing from me". I can't understand why some folks who feel that way give advice in other threads on how to undertake jobs yourself. If they were consistent they would always advise "Get a professional".

Well, not all DIY are created equal. Sometimes, after seeing one of those end results I want to scream “why didn’t you hire a professional?”..... and the same goes for a written article. Some are bad, some are just atrocious.