What's the deal with brokers?!?!

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by LifePart2

Fine if you already know just what you want. If you have already decided that you want a Lagoon 400 from 7 years ago, or an old Island Packet, then sure, hunt online for what there is and the ask more questions.

Noel,

i understand your point. And sure it is a way to approach the process of buying a boat.

However, if i am planning to throw in a huge amount of money from my savings for a boat i am planning to spend a couple of years on, i choose a different route.

We are sailing every cat we have on our list for at least 2-3 weeks. Our "list" consists of various cats we visited on boat shows or while spending some time in marinas. This gives us a very good understanding of what we like and what we dont like on each brand.
This is a time and money consuming process. However, i do not think there is a better way of spending my vacations... Combining "test drives" with "fun dives" and see what brand suits us most.

We started that process about 5 years ago, knowing that boat purchase will be around 2021-22, right after i will quit work and retire... I hope by doing so we will not need a broker to buy our boat.

John

[LifePart2]

Originally Posted by Piscis

Noel,
We are sailing every cat we have on our list for at least 2-3 weeks. Our "list" consists of various cats we visited on boat shows or while spending some time in marinas. This gives us a very good understanding of what we like and what we dont like on each brand.
This is a time and money consuming process. However, i do not think there is a better way of spending my vacations... Combining "test drives" with "fun dives" and see what brand suits us most.

We started that process about 5 years ago, knowing that boat purchase will be around 2021-22, right after i will quit work and retire... I hope by doing so we will not need a broker to buy our boat.

John

John, that is, indeed, an excellent way to do it if you are able to plan ahead like that.

Our decision to buy a boat was rather rapid. I had been dinghy racing forever. Never sailed any big boats. My wife had never sailed at all. We chartered two boats, a mono and a cat (with instructors) that same year, and then decided we wanted to buy something, NOW.

So we did. Left it in charter for 9 months while we got organised, and then moved aboard. Crossed the Atlantic the next year and then back again 5 years later. Never looked back.

Not, I understand, the most common way to go about things. But it worked for us

Next time around (if and when) I will have a much better idea of what I want, and will probably hunt around on my own to find the perfect boat. Or I might even get something custom built. But if you don't now what you want, then a buyer's broker - or your own strategy - would still be a good way to go.

But not if one ends up with some of those horror-story brokers that I have been reading about in this thread.

[rsementi]

I’m in the same “boat”, but I haven’t purchased a boat yet. I’ve dealt with many kinds of other brokers but never a yacht broker, yet. I’m very curious to hear the answers you get so I can learn.
Especially the idea of a buyers broker, which on the surface, I don’t think I need. Or do I?

[merrydolphin]

Yes, a mixed bag.
While on the West coast of US. Had the wonderful tool of Latitude 38 to use. Sold 2 significant cruising boats using them. One a KP 44 and another a Cal 2-46. Both in great shape and ready to cruise. Both those deals were with no broker. Both were gone within a couple of months. ( Thanks Latitude 38). Total cost, about $150 For a decent classified ad with picture.
The east coast a different story. Sold a 34’ trawler with an excellent broker. Very knowledgeable. And despite my extensive experience and the fact that I did work for a while as a broker, this guy was right on every item that I questioned. He was really on top of things. John Kaiser in Annapolis. Sold my boat at the worst time at bottom of the recession when boats sat for years unsold. Sold mine in a month!! Another excellent experience was when I sold my Tartan 37. Found a great business in Oriental NC. Triton Marine. Found a broker there, Andy, that actually LISTENED to my needs and had my boat sold in about a month. A class act. Knew his stuff. Now have also run across my share of not very good brokers that were either just sleazy or didn’t really care about the client or job. Or just plain didn’t know what they were doing and or didn’t really have the boating knowlege. There are plenty of them out there too. You have to look and talk and see how your personalities mesh. Takes some doing.

[john manning]

I have never sold a boat using a broker but I have bought two. On the way to buying those two boats I viewed dozens and made offers on seven. The biggest obstacle I found when buying a boat was the broker. If I managed to sidestep the broker and talk directly to the owner everything went smoothly.

On three occasions, after my offers, I discovered that the broker had talked the seller into holding out for more and the deal failed. In each of those cases the boat eventually sold for less than my offer.

Do not trust your broker. They work for themselves not for you.

[Sonny36]

This was 25 yrs. ago, 1995, but nevertheless: I was in MT shopping for a sailboat on the east coast. Found a broker in Annapolis whom I hired as a buyer's broker. He searched for me according to my requirements, came up w/ several boats from Baltimore to FL. I flew out, visited them, no deal. Returned to MT, thinking that was it.


He later notified me he found a boat in VA that I might like & included pictures. (This was before I had a computer.) I liked them & flew out to Annapolis, where he drove me down to VA to look at the boat. I liked it, it met my requirements, and I could afford it. He drove me back, I flew home, and we proceeded to buy the boat via Federal Express.


He helped me set up the boat & engine surveys, sea trial, etc. Later, my plans did not work out & I engaged him to sell the boat for me. He found a buyer in WA state, we dealt, the buyer bought the boat & all was well.


I can't remember all the details & this was 25 yrs. ago; all I can say is to what lengths a good broker will go for you. Yes, he made money, but he earned it. He's still in business in Annapolis. He was the sole owner & employee of the business back then; he's still there, in a different location. I do not know if his business expanded or if he is no longer running it.


The boat, incidentally, is still sailing, presently in Australian waters. I will provide information for this broker by PM, if you wish. You can find his current address on Google Maps.

[LifePart2]

Originally Posted by rsementi

Especially the idea of a buyers broker, which on the surface, I don’t think I need. Or do I?

Remember that a buyer's broker doesn't cost you any money - the commission comes from the seller.

Also, if you engage him to help you buy, he knows he is going to make money (assuming you are serious) so his question is not 'Can I sell this boat to this guy before he walks away and finds a different one?' and, instead, becomes 'which boat will I sell to this guy?'. Much less incentive to do a hard sell, and therefore more opportunity for him to actually try to find the right boat for you. In fact, the question now, for him, becomes, 'how can I minimise wasted time and travel before I find just the right boat so he loves it, buys it, and then recommends me to others?'

BTW, since people are naming names, the broker we used (10 years ago) was George Coggeshall from the Catamaran Company in Florida.

The one downside, of course, is that he won't find you a boat that is being sold privately. But then that is just the same as buying a house.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by shadow

Hi All,
I know that most of you have purchases many boats in your lives and have a myriad of experiences with a wide range of yacht brokers. I've purchased a few myself and I swear, every single one of them has been dodgy scum that is not only lazy but incompetent?!

I've heard many stories, from here as well, that some people have had GREAT experiences with their broker and their overall transactions. That so far has been a unicorn and I'm sick of these idiots being in the way of a pleasant experience. If these brokers really hate their lives, then, do something else, stop making everyone around you, especially your client base, suffer for your crap lives..

Ok, had to rant as I'm still on the market and dreading my next experience even though I've been sailing since 12 and only feel alive on the water.. Oh well..

Cheers all for hearing me out... LOL

Not overly impressed with surveyors(yet to meet one that I thought did a good job) or the people that work on boats either (the vast majority of these guys should wear masks and have pirate flags on their trucks). I do as much of it as I can myself.

[olaf hart]

No complaints about brokers or surveyors here, but this thread reminds me of my former life as a PCP and people complaining about medical specialists.

Maybe we need a brokers broker, someone who knows the broker market and can recommend the right broker for the right buyer, like a PCP knows the reputations of all the local specialists and matches up patients and doctors....

Sounds like a lot of folks here are not informed consumers until after the event.

Maybe CF could do us all a favour and set up a list of recommended brokers and surveyors

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Sounds like a lot of folks here are not informed consumers until after the event.

Maybe CF could do us all a favour and set up a list of recommended brokers and surveyors

How do you become an informed consumer? Most of the brokers are as described.



As for people working on your boat... lol. They are worse.



If your not handy, you lucky if someone will even come to your boat. If you are handy you would not let the ones that come even on your boat.


I know guys I would never hire that have walked a way from an engine tear down when the thing is 1/2 torn down and parts all over the boat.



I know 2 fiberglass guys I would trust and they are booked for 2-3 yrs.



I know 1 mechanic and he lives west of London Ont and only works there now. He is getting up there too and he is not going to be working much longer.



There was a guy in Toronto that every single boat he got on needed a new engine. He had 10 good used ones in his shop he could sell you and if you took one he took your and put it in the shop with a for sale sign on it.



I tell you man its a mugs game here...

[Mickeyrouse]

One of the more pleasant experiences of buying our Bermuda 40 was dealing with our broker, Phil Bennett of Hinckley. He was very knowledgeable, did not apply pressure, was helpful in suggesting how to deal with the seller, and an all-around super guy. I met several other brokers from Hinckley, and I think they were cut from similar cloth.

[shadow]

I agree, don't even get me started on boat yards and their workers.. That's a whole other thread of scam and scum.. LOL.. As for hinckley, I would assume and hope that you would get top notch brokers as their name and reputation would not tolerate morons within their ranks.. I'm hoping as I love Hinckleys and would hate to hear someone tarnishing their name and reputation.

[gymrat]

Originally Posted by Piratenorm

I was very content to sail my own boat around Georgian Bay and friends boats in Lake Ontario, work part-time at a West Marine location that allowed me to set my own schedule, get boat parts at far lower than retail cost and do the occasional boat delivery for the brokerage I now work as a sales associate for. West Marine leaving Canada for good coinciding with a near-fatal heart attack left me landbound and sad, until I was offered the position of broker/sailboat division I now hold proudly. And I am grateful to be working for the brokerage I am as Ethics is above all else here.
I have had similar bad experiences trying to co-brokerage deals with other agents, but my worst experiences always seem to be with brokers in Florida, looking for boats for clients while enjoying winter months where it's warm, who don't have the time of day or courtesy to listen, much less assist. Their dismissive attitude and in many cases rudeness is astonishing. Phone calls not returned, appointments not kept, crapcan boats recommended as Turn-Key and generally wasting my time.
I'm sorry for the bad experiences many of you have had. I pride myself on returning phone calls asap, Emails responded to quickly. Listening to clients tell me their needs, and wants and the joy I get introducing a buyer to their dream boat, or helping a boatowner out when they are no longer able to do so.

In that case, as a Canadian, you can be my guy. I'm shopping for a 30 ft cruiser like a Catalina. Ontario market doesn't have much at the moment based on yachtworld.