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Old 05-08-2020, 14:11   #31
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Wire the money into a new bank account at a different bank you open today. Mail him receipt requested by USPS a bill of sale with full name and verified address selling the boat as is where is. Jive him the title when he shows up and don't sign it until he shows up. Pull the money out in cash as soon as you can and deposit it into your normal bank. document everything. Have him email you the signed and notarized or guaranteed bill of saile as soon as you withdraw the cash and return it to him with your notarized signature and give him the hard copy with the title and be sure to get his picture and licence plate number then report the sale to the state. Have him deal with the boat yard directly or through someone of his choosing.
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Old 05-08-2020, 14:28   #32
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

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Originally Posted by lvictorlucas View Post
Wire the money into a new bank account at a different bank you open today. Mail him receipt requested by USPS a bill of sale with full name and verified address selling the boat as is where is. Jive him the title when he shows up and don't sign it until he shows up. Pull the money out in cash as soon as you can and deposit it into your normal bank. document everything. Have him email you the signed and notarized or guaranteed bill of saile as soon as you withdraw the cash and return it to him with your notarized signature and give him the hard copy with the title and be sure to get his picture and licence plate number then report the sale to the state. Have him deal with the boat yard directly or through someone of his choosing.
It's a documented vessel so there is no title to sign over; the document needed is a USCG Bill of Sale CG-1340
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Old 05-08-2020, 16:05   #33
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Make any deal subject to the clearance of all funds into YOUR bank account--not some lawyers' trust account.

Then and ONLY then do you transfer the registration and ownership of your vessel and make all of the notifications a vendor is required to do--which means you HAVE to have ALL of the required purchaser details (well, you do in my country). In Australia they allow ten days to get this information sorted or you could be liable for any subsequent damages or wreck removal, but I am not a lawyer, so you better check.

I would do NOTHING until I hear the money is in YOUR account with NO chance of the deal falling through or any funds transfer being aborted after the vessel has passed into the hands of another.
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Old 05-08-2020, 16:38   #34
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

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Originally Posted by DreaminFred View Post
OK- the rest of the story, well, maybe not the rest, but more.

After talking with the much Respected Elder, I contacted others who were close to pulling the trigger.

One of them executed the standard BoatUS Purchase Agreement and paypaled me a substantial deposit. Respected Elder is out of the deal at this point. Much more comfortable with this deal/buyer.

RE's wife called me and kind of expected me to do her dirty work and tell RE he was old, crazy and incompetent. I declined. Hope they have a good discussion. Glad I'm not respected or an elder (yet). My sweetie is going to do the sea trial on OUR next boat!

Dreamin'

PS, other than the fee, any concerns about PayPal?

Maybe. Did he send it using the "Friends and Family" option? If so, he has no recourse and you have no worries. If he sent "regular" PayPal then he has a TON of possible angles to back out of the deal even after he has taken the boat. PayPal is NOTORIOUS for favoring buyers. Verify how it was sent. Better yet, just refund/return the money back via PayPal and tell him to WIRE IT to your bank.
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Old 05-08-2020, 17:38   #35
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

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Make sure the check clears before handing over the title.
What Bill O said. Make sure, no, double sure the check has cleared and not just
depostited. Only take a day and well worth it. I sold an airplane for a goodly sum with no prepurchase. The guy flew out, picked him up at the airport and he flew the twin for 40 minutes. When we got back, we went to the bank and I was paid in 4 hours after I picked him up. I filled up the tanks and he departed that afternoon for Houston.

We still keep in touch.

It happens.
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Old 05-08-2020, 19:07   #36
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Wire wire wire. Or irrevocable letter of credit. Or cash. Or attorney’s escrow account check cause that attorney has his career on the line.
I’ve never bought nor sold anything really expensive without serious clarity around availability of funds.

That’s speaking as a buyer as well as a seller.
I would not expect a seller to just take MY word for cash. Even though I know it’s good.
One exception. And this speaks volumes and maybe is the story here and sometimes.
I bought an engagement diamond in the 1980s. 3k. Not cheap. From my now ex wife’s father’s cousin’s prep school roommate. A second generation diamond wholesaler. I asked how he wanted payment. He said “you are trusting me on the quality of the diamond, I have to trust you on the payment.”
Personal check was fine, but of course it cleared before the stone was set and in my possession. But a fair deal all around.
Sometimes you trust your judgement.
And I’ve been screwed that’s way too. But I still trust. Better than living in fear all the time.
Oh yeah. Remarried. Another ring a different jeweler. Another personal check. But I’ve known him for 40 years.
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Old 05-08-2020, 19:55   #37
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Maybe the seller is also worried OP is going to take the money and go out in a blaze of glory?


Who cares, just sell him the boat, verify with your bank the funds are clear, fill out the bill of sale and report of sale/dereg, just like you would for anything else, done and done.
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Old 05-08-2020, 20:34   #38
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gma4 View Post
Fred: I hope I am wrong, but...
This has several earmarks of a scam.

1) Full price offer
2) Person never saw the boat
3) Doesn't care about condition
4) He sounds so genuine on the phone.

And please, Fred, DO NOT assume that if his check "clears" at your bank, that the money is in your pocket. Fraudulent checks are often "cleared" early in the process, and later....sometimes weeks...the bank notifies you that they have determined it too be forged and pull the money from your account. If you have already taken the money out, you can expect that they will look to you for repayment.
You should talk to your bank and see what they recommend. Often the best procedure is to have his bank wire the money to your bank account. If the seller doesn't want to do this, then you know exactly what you are dealing with.

Again, I hope I am wrong.....
Greg

X2 to what Greg said above. Hire an escrow service, have buyer WIRE $$ to the escrow service. Escrow verifies funds, signs over title per Purchase and Sales Agreement, gives you a check, minus their fee, or wires funds to your bank. Notify Documentation authority, whether Federal, or state of sale, sale price, and new owner's info. Done deal


To reiterate, a check that has "cleared" YOUR bank can still come back and haunt you if it is a bad check . . .
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Old 05-08-2020, 20:50   #39
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

I think the general consensus is that you should move forward with the deal but just make sure the title is transferred out of your name. If something were to happen to the boat while still titled in your name, it may come back at you.

A boat documenter can make all this happen for a reasonable fee. Since the old guy is paying full price, I'd recommend that you foot the bill to get the title transfer done. It would be cheap insurance and peace of mind.

Count yourself lucky.

Once the check clears and the title transfer is sent in, the old guy can do whatever he wants with his boat. It's his at that point.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:01   #40
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Sounds like the famous "Nigerian fraud".
Hope not but to give your account details to a stranger is not peace of mind.
Try to speak with him in a video call and also with "his" bank manager to have a better impression.Speak with your bank manager for advise.
Sounds too good to be true
Remember that we are in corona times.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:53   #41
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Get paid with a wire transfer or bank check. A personal and even bank check can "clear" at your bank and then 2 weeks later can bounce and you are responsible. For a bank check, call the checks bank after checking that it is a real FDIC bank. Ask them to look up the check number and tell you the amount. If they find the check and it looks good, ask them to confirm by email.
If the check is valid, the bank will cooperate.

The typical boat buying scam, (may not be your case) goes like this.

I cant get to see the boat but I want to buy it at full price. I want to Fedex overnight you a bank check. The check arrives but there is a mistake. They sent you too much money. Then, a message, sorry I sent you too much, please wire or send a debit card with the difference. They never come to pickup the boat and the check bounces 2 weeks later.

The initial "clear" at the bank is cursory. They make the funds available. Once the check gets physically to the clearing house, it can bounce. Personal checks can bounce for insufficient funds. Bank checks are often excellent forgeries.

I have a boat advertised. Its turned out to be a honeypot. So far this year I have received 2 fake checks.
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:37   #42
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

I always milk those scammers. It costs money to Fed EX overnight. I tell them I wired back the funds to them which is actually Western Union. But they say it's not there. Oh dear. I tell them I'll wire it again, etc.

Scamming the scammer is great karma.
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Old 10-08-2020, 07:02   #43
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

Totally agree with Bill O. I don't care how authentic a 'bank check' looks. Make sure it clears before doing anything. There is a scam where an eager buyer arranges the purchase and when all is said and done, they have the title and you have nothing.

Guy tried this with me. Offered to come get my Catalina 27 with a fin keel for full price at the dock where I kept it. When I asked him where the lift was he was going to use, he said a crane was coming to pick up the boat! Obviously the guy had no idea of what he was doing. I searched. Found the scam.

Be careful and best wishes for a legitimate sale.

Mark B.

https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consu...ugust2019.html
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Old 10-08-2020, 07:21   #44
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

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Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
Sell it but draw up a contract and make sure title is transferred. If he sends you a solid bank check that's all you need.
The new fraud is sending "real" certified bank checks.. What happens is that your bank can not clear that check with in 3 days. You may the title transfer only to find out the account is closed. now you lost the money and the title.

Google it.
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Old 10-08-2020, 07:53   #45
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Re: Weird sale deal- what should I do?

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Originally Posted by DreaminFred View Post
OK Captains-

I've had my boat for sale on sailboatlistings.com for a good price for a couple weeks, lots of calls, several folk have looked at the boat, one is serious and putting together a purchase and sale offer.

Now the weird part. This old guy called me a couple weeks ago about the boat and bent my ear for an hour about a variety of things not many of which pertained to buying a boat. I figured it was an old guy with not a lot of folk to talk to so, OK. This morning he calls (early) and says he wants to buy the boat. He wants to know how to send the money. Full price. The boat's on jackstands and I have my foot in a cast so I can't go get the boat into the water. I tell him we can finish the deal Labor Day. He says he wants to do it now- can't I have someone at the marina get it into the water and ready to go? Hmm, I guess so ...

I few minutes later I get a call from his bank. Really, I checked the bank and the employee's name- real bank, real employee, real phone number.

I've sold a lot of stuff in my years, some for a lot more money than this, but this is weird. I'm picturing this guy (I think he's 80) buying my boat, gunning the engine and going out in a blaze of glory. What should I do? How should I make it a clean break so there would be no blowback on me if he did something crazy or harmful after buying the boat?

Scratching my head.

And

Dreamin

Fred
I ageee with everything said thus far but I’m a finance guy and want to offer a couple of important points. First, do not accept a bank check. Insist that the money be wired to you over the Federal Reserve System, and not over the inter-bank ACH system. Ask your bank how long after the funds are received over the Federal Reserve system can the wire transfer be recalled. I’m sorry I don’t recall as recalls are rare, but possible. If he doesn’t know, ask him to research it and let you know. I seem to recall 72 hours, but I could be wrong. After the recall period, the receipt of funds cannot be recalled or reversed.
Beyond that, I would have your attorney draw the sales agreement, and include language indicating that you have offered him, subject to a deposit, a 30 day due diligence period to inspect the boat, have it surveyed and/or conduct a sea trial, but by his own choice he is waiving such opportunities and purchasing the boat sight unseen and as-in/where is condition, that no warranties of any kind, including serviceability, are expressed or implied. That the document constitutes the entirety of the agreement, That upon execution of the agreement and receipt of payment, the sale is completed and cannot be reversed for any reason.
Also, considering the guy’s age, I would have the document executed in the attorney’s office with the attorney going over the document line by line and repeatedly asking if the buyers has questions. I’d also want two witnesses to sign and for it to be notarized by the attorney or a staffer. The purpose of this is to have as much evidence of the buyer’s competence as possible. I’d also get the name and titles of anyone at the bank who you talk to and casually inquire and get the same information about his bank officer or others who regularly interact with him.
On thing that could disrupt or reverse the sale is a lawsuit alleging the buyer was incompetent to execute the agreement, and win or lose, it would be expense. Consequently you want as much ammunition as possible to ward off anything before it begins.
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