We want to get into cruising, arent sure where to start. Looking for advice [So Cal]

[Duxa]

Good day all,

Little background, we are in our 30's. Working full time in Orange County, California. So this means mostly sailing weekends and maybe a couple week long trips each year during vacation time. So our range for now would be Catalina and Channel Islands of California. Some years down the road we'd like to sail to La Paz, Mazatlán and Puerto Vallarta (yes we are aware of the Baja Bash). And in distant future hopefully make our way to the Caribbean.

We have zero experience with sailing, we've been on a few boats in our life, but mostly speed boats and dinghies, so those experiences don't really count.

We don't know anyone with a sailboat, so I am turning to you guys for knowledge and advice.

Here is a list of questions that we would love to get answers to:

1) It appears that getting a slip to store your boat around here is an impossible task (anywhere between Long Beach and Dana Point). Waitlists that can span years. So for the first question. When you buy a boat (and its in a marina you actually want to use), does the slip transfer over to you?

2) While we are on the topic of slips, if anyone is down here in Orange County / Los Angeles area, what should I expect to pay for one for a 40 foot monohull? We wouldn't need any amenities, just a place to store a boat, Ive looked at some marinas and it seems like $20k a year is the cost of a slip? Does that sound right?

3) How does one go about finding classes? And how much should they cost? I checked Newport Beach sailing school and to go through ASA 101 to ASA 105 it would be around $12k for the two of us. Is that a normal price or should we research other options? How far down the class structure do you recommend going (all of them or just a few?).

4) Do you recommend to do sailing school or paying a private party to teach you?

5) How does one go about buying a boat? Should we talk to a broker (if so how do we find one)? We are probably going to go for a used one because brand new ones would be out of our price range.

6) How do we find a reputable surveyor?

7) If we own a boat for a year, maintain it and all that, is it reasonable to expect to be able to recoup at least half of what we paid for it (excluding maintenance), if we want to throw in the towel? Like if we pay 100k for it, sail around for a bit, spend 10k on maintenance, is it reasonable to expect to be able to recoup 50k if we want to go back to shore life?

8) I see a lot of recommendations of getting on boats, crewing for people, etc etc... how do we do that? How do we find people we can sail out with in order to learn?

9) Is boat property tax same as house property taxes? 1% of the value? So 100k boat would pay 1k in property taxes?

10) What are your thoughts on chartering your boat out? Since we will continue working full time the boat will sit in the marina at least 5 days every week. Is it possible to have a company use it and pay us for that time? Or is this not recommended? How does one find such a company?

Any other hints, tips, advice as we start on this journey is very much appreciated!

Thanks guys!

[SeaStory]

Since you have no experience, start by doing a club that offers introductory courses and loaner/rental boats. There are quite a few in your area.

[TJSocal]

Seconding the idea of starting out by chartering. You might check out Marina Sailing, they have several locations, offer ASA certifications and have a decent charter fleet.

If you're looking at buying you might first set your sights on something a little smaller. 30-ish feet is probably better for a first-time buyer - it will be a lot cheaper to purchase, operate and maintain. That's plenty big enough for Catalina and coastal cruising and you can always boat up later if you decide you like the lifestyle.

You can find Long Beach slip fees at https://www.longbeach.gov/globalasse...-schedule-fy20. Other marinas in the area will probably be similar.

[Duxa]

Thanks guys. We started reading up on all the clubs around here, seems like not all offer ASA certification. Is it worth actually getting the certification? Versus just getting trained by ASA certified instructor?

[Cloroxbottle]

I'll answer what I can.

Originally Posted by Duxa

Good day all,

Little background, we are in our 30's. Working full time in Orange County, California. So this means mostly sailing weekends and maybe a couple week long trips each year during vacation time. So our range for now would be Catalina and Channel Islands of California. Some years down the road we'd like to sail to La Paz, Mazatlán and Puerto Vallarta (yes we are aware of the Baja Bash). And in distant future hopefully make our way to the Caribbean.

We have zero experience with sailing, we've been on a few boats in our life, but mostly speed boats and dinghies, so those experiences don't really count.

So you're going to need two boats, there's just no way around that.

The first will be the one you learn to sail. dock, anchor and gain experience. At least here on the east coast that would be a 25-30 foot fiberglass sloop with a diesel auxiliary engine. A boat of this size will be manageable to sail, maintain, and clean (particularly since you're working 5 days a week) and similar in size to what you take your first few ASA classes on. It will be big enough for you to have some weekend adventures.

This will allow you to see if you actually want the second part of the dream you envision. A smaller boat is cheaper to maintain both in terms of dollars and time. There is a great deal of wisdom in the words "go simple, go small, go now." Remember, everything in a boat costs more money to maintain and fix. So the more things that you can keep modular, the better. You don't need a fusion radio, just a nice bluetooth speaker that you can use with whatever music source you'd like. The more complicated your boat is - from steering on down the line - the bigger PITA it will be. Not that some of those complications aren't worth the PITA it will be, but ask yourself that question for every one.

Your second boat can be that 35-42 foot cruiser.

3) How does one go about finding classes? And how much should they cost? I checked Newport Beach sailing school and to go through ASA 101 to ASA 105 it would be around $12k for the two of us. Is that a normal price or should we research other options? How far down the class structure do you recommend going (all of them or just a few?).

How to find a class: https://asa.com/find-sailing-school/

Not all classes or instructors are created equal...but 12k seems abnormally high. The first couple of ASA classes should be enough to get you started. Then go get some experience, then come back.

Start learning about weather now. You can never know too much about that, you're at its mercy.

4) Do you recommend to do sailing school or paying a private party to teach you?

Go to a sailing school. At least in that event, you've had a third party supposedly vet an instructor before hiring them. We've done the "paying a private party" twice, and both individuals were borderline incompetent. There is no federal/state/local licensing authority you need to seek licensure from before you represent yourself as a sailing instructor.

5) How does one go about buying a boat? Should we talk to a broker (if so how do we find one)? We are probably going to go for a used one because brand new ones would be out of our price range.

Look at yachtworld, talk to a broker, look at sailboatlistings.com, look at craigslist, look at ebay. I would think that for the size and price you would be looking for first, sailboatlistings and craigslist would be a better place to start.

6) How do we find a reputable surveyor?

Talk to a broker. Get a list. Then talk to marinas and other sailors in the local area. Get a list. Call the people that aren't on the broker's list. I'm kidding. Sort of. We had a survey scheduled with a "reputable" surveyor, he cancelled 3 days before the survey which left me scrambling for a replacement. Nice guy, but didn't really say what was needed to be said.

7) If we own a boat for a year, maintain it and all that, is it reasonable to expect to be able to recoup at least half of what we paid for it (excluding maintenance), if we want to throw in the towel? Like if we pay 100k for it, sail around for a bit, spend 10k on maintenance, is it reasonable to expect to be able to recoup 50k if we want to go back to shore life?

Most likely, but that depends on how you buy it. Also if your surveyor misses something or something catastrophic happens during the course of your ownership, that could change the math. I wouldn't even consider spending 100k for your first boat. You may be capable of that, but it's almost guaranteed to buy you too much boat. Don't outkick your coverage.

8) I see a lot of recommendations of getting on boats, crewing for people, etc etc... how do we do that? How do we find people we can sail out with in order to learn?

Ask around at the local yacht club or marina, look for club racers that are looking for crew seems to be traditional advice but at least around here that didn't work.

9) Is boat property tax same as house property taxes? 1% of the value? So 100k boat would pay 1k in property taxes?

No. In most states, boats are registered with the state like a car and then either titled with the state or registered with the USCG. This part, at least, is much cheaper than paying property taxes.

10) What are your thoughts on chartering your boat out? Since we will continue working full time the boat will sit in the marina at least 5 days every week. Is it possible to have a company use it and pay us for that time? Or is this not recommended? How does one find such a company?

I wouldn't even worry about that. Charter boats typically have a specific profile, size, and capacity. Anything that is a reasonable choice as a first boat won't fit that profile.

Good luck. Do what I'm telling you, not what I did.

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by SeaStory

Since you have no experience, start by doing a club that offers introductory courses and loaner/rental boats. There are quite a few in your area.

Best advise and that is how I started thirty years ago. I took a few ASA classes...enough to satisfy the club's requirement to charter their fleet. Did that for 5 or so years before buying our first sailboat.
That way not much invested and if you do not like it, or kids/wife want nothing to do with boating you could move to something else. The other questions are good...but the answers are nearly useless at this stage. Never sailed and thinking about buying a 40ft boat, with all expenses associated with it is not the way to go.

Abe

[Adelie]

Welcome.

If you don’t mind coming down to San Diego I’ll take you daysailing.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

[Duxa]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

I'll answer what I can.



So you're going to need two boats, there's just no way around that.

The first will be the one you learn to sail. dock, anchor and gain experience. At least here on the east coast that would be a 25-30 foot fiberglass sloop with a diesel auxiliary engine. A boat of this size will be manageable to sail, maintain, and clean (particularly since you're working 5 days a week) and similar in size to what you take your first few ASA classes on. It will be big enough for you to have some weekend adventures.

This will allow you to see if you actually want the second part of the dream you envision. A smaller boat is cheaper to maintain both in terms of dollars and time. There is a great deal of wisdom in the words "go simple, go small, go now." Remember, everything in a boat costs more money to maintain and fix. So the more things that you can keep modular, the better. You don't need a fusion radio, just a nice bluetooth speaker that you can use with whatever music source you'd like. The more complicated your boat is - from steering on down the line - the bigger PITA it will be. Not that some of those complications aren't worth the PITA it will be, but ask yourself that question for every one.

Your second boat can be that 35-42 foot cruiser.

Thanks for the answers, really appreciate it. Would you still recommend 25-30 footer if it needed to accommodate 6 people overnight (4 adults and 2 kids)? We are thinking weekend trips out to Channel Islands/ Catalina etc... probably 2 nights most of the time but maybe a week or two once a year if we take vacation time off.

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Best advise and that is how I started thirty years ago. I took a few ASA classes...enough to satisfy the club's requirement to charter their fleet. Did that for 5 or so years before buying our first sailboat.
That way not much invested and if you do not like it, or kids/wife want nothing to do with boating you could move to something else. The other questions are good...but the answers are nearly useless at this stage. Never sailed and thinking about buying a 40ft boat, with all expenses associated with it is not the way to go.

Abe

It would be helpful if you could list off some expenses. Being new we dont know anything. So far we gathered that it would be 10% yearly maintenance cost, $1k or $2k (somewhere in there) for insurance, and about $10k Marina fees? What kind of other costs are there?

I think your feedback would be extremely useful since you are in our area and have 41 Jeanneau. We were looing at maybe 40 Beanetau or Jeanneau. I just really dont like the interior on Catalinas. Hunters seem ok, but made fun of constantly (not sure why and afraid to ask). And beyond those brands I dont know any that arent 500k+ (Garcia etc)...

Originally Posted by Adelie

Welcome.

If you don’t mind coming down to San Diego I’ll take you daysailing.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

Thanks, updated my profile. We live in Orange County. Would love to go out for a sail with you. Ill send you a PM.

[Enfant Du Vent]

Ahoy Duxa:

I second what everyone else has said about going out with others on their boats first. I would say spending 5-10% of your budget on "shopping around" will save you the painful cost of buying the wrong boat.

"5) How does one go about buying a boat?"

ONE rule of thumb is that--for whatever your budget is--only spend 75% on the actual price of the boat. Once you've bought the boat, it's too late to say I'll put off buying foul weather gear/fenders/anchor/anchor chain and rope until next year.
It's also helpful to understand that buying a boat is a bit like buying beef: you buy it by the pound(=displacement), not just by the length. A cheap 35 footer will not have the quality ( ie: strength) of a well built 30 footer.

-Just my 2 cents....after 20,000 miles of owning/cruising.

[sailingabe41ds]

Hi..
You quoted me ...but did you read my reply? Do not buy a boat .. why are you asking about expenses? My advice is DO NOT BUY A BOAT. Join a club, take the lessons, and charter from the fleet. Do that for a few seasons till you know if you like it. Do you really want to spend 200k on a 40ft sailboat without ever sailing before? BTW, Ventura and Orange Co are worlds apart when it comes to expenses and boating.

Sorry, but your response to my comment does not make sense...felt like I was talking to AI rather than a real person.

Best,

Abe

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Best advise and that is how I started thirty years ago. I took a few ASA classes...enough to satisfy the club's requirement to charter their fleet. Did that for 5 or so years before buying our first sailboat.
That way not much invested and if you do not like it, or kids/wife want nothing to do with boating you could move to something else. The other questions are good...but the answers are nearly useless at this stage. Never sailed and thinking about buying a 40ft boat, with all expenses associated with it is not the way to go.

Abe

Listen to Abe, if you are serious. Along with joining a club and chartering some of their smaller boats first, I'd say get a couple of little fun, fast boats, like Lasers, that you can trailer, to learn on. First find out if you really love sailing, then find out if you love being out on the sea.

[Duxa]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Hi..
You quoted me ...but did you read my reply? Do not buy a boat .. why are you asking about expenses? My advice is DO NOT BUY A BOAT. Join a club, take the lessons, and charter from the fleet. Do that for a few seasons till you know if you like it. Do you really want to spend 200k on a 40ft sailboat without ever sailing before? BTW, Ventura and Orange Co are worlds apart when it comes to expenses and boating.

Sorry, but your response to my comment does not make sense...felt like I was talking to AI rather than a real person.

Best,

Abe

Abe, I think there is a little bit of a misunderstanding here. This is the beginning of a learning process for me (and my wife). We arent going out and buying a boat tomorrow. We do plan to take lessons first, we do plan to go out on other boats first. But at some point we will need to figure out what the expenses are for having a sailboat. And hopefully we can do that before owning one. This is why I am asking you these things, because certain numbers may make us go "oh wow, we probably dont want to do that", while others may make us go "ok, sounds good", then jot it down so that later on when we need to run finances and all that we are better armed. I dont see any harm in gaining this knowledge now vs later. I think knowing this type of stuff early on would help us make a realistic plan as far as income/savings etc for when we actually would want to buy a boat.

Charterting one is definitely an option, but it may not work for us, we can only do weekends, we would want to do more than day sail. And two places we looked into for chartering their systems are set up in a way to prevent exactly this (so that people cant just claim weekends).... so its not an easy decision. Nevertheless its still on the table.

As things are right at this moment, we are thinking to buy maybe in 2 years, and do a bunch of stuff before then (classes, going out on various boats, going to boat shows etc)... and if chartering works for us do that as well, and if it keeps working then yes perhaps doing it beyond the 2 year mark...

So basically right now its just hardcore information gathering mode. Not active buying. Maybe its my personality, but I kind of like to arm myself with all the information I can and then make a move.

I hope that makes sense.

Would still love to hear info about Ventura (we have close relatives in Oxnard, so if keeping a sailboat there is way cheaper it may make sense for us).

[Don C L]

Channel Islands has started some long overdue work but I believe there are slips available for 30' there. It is a great place to learn and practice, and when you are ready, some nice places to visit.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Duxa

...3) How does one go about finding classes? And how much should they cost? I checked Newport Beach sailing school and to go through ASA 101 to ASA 105 it would be around $12k for the two of us. Is that a normal price or should we research other options? How far down the class structure do you recommend going (all of them or just a few?).

4) Do you recommend to do sailing school or paying a private party to teach you?...

8) I see a lot of recommendations of getting on boats, crewing for people, etc etc... how do we do that? How do we find people we can sail out with in order to learn? ...

Buying a boat is a big move, and a costly one.

It is best if you know what you are getting into and know that you like sailing before you buy.

Lessons are fine, but costly. And "hands on" is limited

My usual recommendation is go for free, high intensity, total immersion lessons. Yes I said FREE.

Get on a racing crew and learn by doing. Hands on.

Even if you KNOW you don't want to be racers, you can learn a lot in a short time by joining a racing crew and sailing every week on someone else's buck.

Check with yacht clubs near you and find out when they race. Then go to the club about an hour before the race and go to the parking lot and ask everyone you see getting out of a car with a duffel bag, "Do you need crew?"
Chances are you will get on a boat. Next time, when you have experience , it will be easier. In a year you will know whether of not you like sailing, and you will have a lot of knowledge and experience.

Get on the water and do a lot of sailing before you buy a boat.

[JPA Cate]

What you need to crew for someone: this is a minimum list

Sunglasses
Foul Weather gear
Soft soled shoes (cross trainers worked well for me)
Sunscreen
knife on a lanyard
Willingness to do whatever asked quickly and efficiently as ever you can, no arguing or asking questions till after the event is over.

You do not have to sail twice with a skipper who is a screamer.

Ann