Wasp Spray - The Almost Perfect Solution

[sailorboy1]

There's a difference between a theif with a knife and someone who is already intending to attack you far as distance goes. I propose that by far most of the people breaking into a boat (we are talking boating here right) have no intention at the start to kill or injure the people on the boat. They probably hope no one is even aboard.

7 yards! On a boat! Sounds like you are likely to shot someobe using this as a basis.

If you need to refer to some battle training rules, maybe you should consider taking your boat and leaving!

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Bruce626

Don Lucas opined "And a knife from 5 feet away isn't going to cut it if you just shot them with a shotgun etc." ==> I fear that belief in this seriously mistaken opinion can get someone seriously injured and/or killed. A person only five feet from you with a knife is well within potentially lethal range - a single step and a thrust could imbed a large knife in your chest, and quicker than you might imagine - especially under low light conditions where you might miss the start of the movement. I believe the literature recognizes a somewhat longer distance of around seven yards/meters is required to be able to stop someone from closing to contact.

A review of the literature might provide a current distance that LEO training manuals might cite. If one doesn't want to rely on a manual meant for well trained and equipped law enforcement officers, get a rubber knife and an airsoft pistol and experiment for yourself. Be sure to use goggles - and you can get darkened goggles to simulate low light conditions. It is my belief that you will find that the person wielding the knife is not as helpless as you might think from watching cinematic encounters (which is the 'training' that most people have).

Note that the person with the airsoft gun knows they are not using deadly force and will likely be less inclined to hesitate in pulling the trigger as might a person wielding a real firearm in a deadly situation.

I don't think distance is the issue...someone aboard a boat with a drawn knife is automatically classified a lethal threat (at least in my way of thinking) and if it's dark deserves a bullet or worse ASAP...even in the back (aim for center mass even though a head shot is tempting)

Daytime...not much less of a threat but a one second warning to drop it or jump overboard might be in order.

Even carrying the knife sheathed in my mind suggests that an intruder is willing to use it if necessary...much like the owner feeling the necessity to shoot any unautherized boarder.

[Bruce626]

Don Lucas apparently believes "There's a difference between a theif with a knife and someone who is already intending to attack you far as distance goes." but neglects to instruct others in how to tell the difference. Not withstanding the likely sincere desire of an armed thief to make off with your property without being identified or interfered with, the thief has, in fact, boarded your boat armed and with nefarious intentions. It would seem prudent for most reasonable people to believe that an armed intruder has already made up his mind that an attack to further his illegal action is an acceptable outcome - why else come armed?

Don Lucas has also made the assumption "Sounds like you are likely to shot [shoot?] someobe using this as a basis." ==> Clearly a failure as an assumption as the briefest glimpse of my data will show that I am in the Philippines where foreigners are not allowed to own or possess firearms (or even pellet guns) - so, no, I do not have a firearm and are therefore not likely to shoot anyone with one no matter what the distance.

Apparently Don Lucas is indeed 'mildly confused' when he says "If you need to refer to some battle training rules, maybe you should consider taking your boat and leaving!" as the reference was clearly to law enforcement training manuals and not 'battle' training manuals. In battle the object is to eliminate an armed foe at the longest range possible, so not applicable to the situation under discussion. And as noted above, I have already taken my boat and left as I am not living in a US state where the state motto is 'Live free or die' as I seem to recall, but living in the Philippines where the pirates do not wear suits.

[Islander1]

WOW Mate.
BTW, sent you a PM.

[captain58sailin]

Whilst attending anti terrorist training, we did an experiment with rubber knives and rubber guns. Putting a perpetrator at one end of the hall with a rubber knife, and the defender at the other end with a holstered 9mm, and in almost every instance the individual running with the knife could reach the gun wielder before the firearm was drawn, about a 10' to 15' range. Mind you none of the people involved had martial arts training. There were a few of us that were prior military and one ex shore patrol man. It was interesting to see how rattled people get even when they know the knife is rubber.

[sailorboy1]

Maybe Don Lucas isn't confused at all and has made no assumptions at all and just asked a question.

Maybe Don Lucas hasn't cut you out of the poster herd by name because he doesn't agree with you.

Maybe Don Lucas doesn't support the position that if someone is on your property it is acceptable to shoot them.

Maybe Don Lucas thinks is OK if you want a gun on your boat.

Maybe Don Lucas isn't living in fear so he believes there isn't any reason he needs a gun on his boat.

Maybe Don Lucas is not a liberal at all just because he has these views.

Maybe Don Lucas is a vet and has the belief that maybe some people are idiots looking for a accident to happen.


Maybe Don Lucas feels some idiots acturally should be shot.

Maybe Don Lucas ....................... (you fill in because they all could be maybe)

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Whilst attending anti terrorist training, we did an experiment with rubber knives and rubber guns. Putting a perpetrator at one end of the hall with a rubber knife, and the defender at the other end with a holstered 9mm, and in almost every instance the individual running with the knife could reach the gun wielder before the firearm was drawn, about a 10' to 15' range. Mind you none of the people involved had martial arts training. There were a few of us that were prior military and one ex shore patrol man. It was interesting to see how rattled people get even when they know the knife is rubber.

exactly...those unwilling to deal with the aftermath of a premptive strike may have to live with the unfortunate consequences of someone else dealing a lethal blow.

[captain58sailin]

I like the idea of the pressure pads around the different points of entry, integrated with a car alarm and lights coming on to flood the deck with illumination, I believe that would deter all but the most hardened thieves, and those are a cat of a different stripe. Using your head for something besides a hat rack is the best defense against unwanted boarding.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I like the idea of the pressure pads around the different points of entry, integrated with a car alarm and lights coming on to flood the deck with illumination, I believe that would deter all but the most hardened thieves, and those are a cat of a different stripe. Using your head for something besides a hat rack is the best defense against unwanted boarding.

just make sure isnt the boatkat that is setting off the alarms in mid of night.....i have always liked the idea of owning a snow leopard as a boat kat-- but could get a lil unwieldy, as have many of the discussed ideas.
most of the ideas discussed fail to take into account the ILLEGALITY of carrying guns on a private boat. and the illegality of carrying them into and out of many nations into whose waters the desire has been verbalized to sail.
the only way to keep intruders out is prevention--using one's brain. i presume most folks still have those.

[captain58sailin]

I think you could engineer the pressure pad to allow the kitty to walk on it without setting it off, jumping down from a height might present a challenge.

[zeehag]

i still like the idea of a huge kat that is wild enough to eat intruders--no evidence.....

[minaret]

I'm pretty sure my Cane Corso would eat a snow leopard just for the fun of it. I pity the assailant that boards my boat. I worry more about being boarded by officialdom with such a beast aboard. He's very protective of the children, won't let strangers approach. Schutzhund training makes a big difference too, but I still doubt I could control him if someone boarded unnannounced. It would end poorly for them. I'm guessing my boat is the last one in the anchorage that would be picked for a robbery, because he's hard to miss. Here he is on the farm, and some Schutzhund vid...

14 month old Cane Corso Training for Schutzhund working of bite targeting and strong full grips - YouTube

La Onda / Scandifio's Damian Cane Corso training Schutzhund I Protection Training - YouTube

[zeehag]

gee, minaret--bubba is a one bite snak with floss for your puppy.....guess there goes my dream of having a snow leopard...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by zeehag

gee, minaret--bubba is a one bite snak with floss for your puppy.....guess there goes my dream of having a snow leopard...

LOL-they're kinda endangered anyway. They are my favorite big cat, stunningly beautiful animals. Did you see the footage they got of one hunting a few years back? First film of a hunting snow leopard, it's incredible footage. Think we're off topic enough yet?

Wild Snow Leopard Hunting - YouTube

[zeehag]

ty minaret-- they are sooooo gorgeous!!!!! guess i will have to "settle" for bubba and watch him hunt finches--at least he is a good early warning crittier-- will let me know when others approach and from what direction....
and he is a reallly goodd reason not to have weird sprays on board.
now, a tazer i could get with.....