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**minaret** · 03-09-2011, 10:27

Dual wielding kukri's sounds like a great way to cut off your own arm, or worse. I suppose if you practiced for years it could be a valid technique, but I doubt it. When using a single kukri I find I want to keep the other arm tucked in close to the body, for obvious reasons. The ghurkas have been using them to chop people up for a thousand years, and they'd probably laugh at you if you suggested akimbo kukris. Sure you haven't been playing to many video games? My khukuri knifeworks kukri weighs a good 3-4 lbs, cant imagine swinging two safely. Especially not in the confined space of a boat. I suggested the kukri because I feel it is close to the ideal edged weapon for a complete amateur with no training whatsoever and a minimal budget to use in a confined space in a life or death struggle. Plus most people would run if they saw it. It's also useful as a machete/bush knife, in fact ghurkas use them for everything from making shelter to eating their food. And it costs less than a tenth the cost of a quality wakizashi, which is actually about the same length as you average marine issue cutlass.
The smatchet would be a much more ideal weapon, but they are rare and expensive. It was designed by William Fairbairn for WWII commandoes to use in close combat. Fairbairn also designed the Sykes-Fairbairn commando knife, and developed close combat training techniques for the allied special forces. The smatchet is incredibly lethal, stabbing or cutting, and Fairbairn said of it that a person when handed a smatchet would immediately register confidence and aggression. You can see why. Here's a pic of the WWII original and my replica.

zeehag · 03-09-2011, 10:49

mebbe short kind of cutlass..lol i have room to swing a louisville slugger to mash melons, so i think i may just make it without cutting any mizzen halyards.....

**minaret** · 03-09-2011, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

mebbe short kind of cutlass..lol i have room to swing a louisville slugger to mash melons, so i think i may just make it without cutting any mizzen halyards.....

Wuttabout INSIDE the boat? A lady corsair can't be too careful. I can't imagine much that would be scarier than trying to enter the companionway or hatch of a boat containing a pissed off person with a kukri or machete in her hand.

Bruce626 · 03-09-2011, 19:50

"Dual wielding kukri's sounds like a great way to cut off your own arm, or worse. I suppose if you practiced for years it could be a valid technique, but I doubt it." ==> Just because you are incapable of competently performing a task is no reason to question the abilities of others. In point of fact, I competed in weapons kata competitions successfully and with no injuries, it is NOT that difficult.

"I suggested the kukri because I feel it is close to the ideal edged weapon for a complete amateur with no training whatsoever and a minimal budget to use in a confined space in a life or death struggle." ==> And you are certainly entitled to this opinion - but with its weight, forward swept blade configuration which most are unfamiliar with, single edge, and lack of a serviceable stabbing point, many would not agree. Ghurkas typically have a lifetime of familiarity with their national weapon, and very traditional training.

"Plus most people would run if they saw it [kuhri]." ==> I suspect that you underestimate the amount most people know about a kukri. If it is seen at all in the dark, it is just going to look like an odd implement of some sort. Here in the Philippines, a likely opponent will be wielding a large jungle bolo which will typically be about the same weight and size, and will have a point suitable for stabbing - they are not likely to be intimidated (nor would I suspect would be someone from another third world country wielding a machete which is likely longer than the kukri).

"it costs less than a tenth the cost of a quality wakizashi, which is actually about the same length as you[r] average marine issue cutlass." ==> My wakasashi were selected to be about the same length as my Arnis sticks - about 28" overall. Perhaps Zeehag has also selected a cutlass that is shorter to match a woman's smaller frame - if she says that she can wield it effectively I have no reason to doubt her. Even a short cutlass will provide greater reach than the typical Mexican machete with which her intruders are likely to be armed - and it will have hand protection.

While we appreciate the history lesson, recommending a weapon that is "rare and expensive" is not especially helpful. Any large double edged knife (dagger) with a stabbing point would likely suffice, but in many places a double edged knife, AKA dagger, is looked upon as primarily a weapon and not a legitimate tool and is therefore considered an illegal weapon. And while the Sykes-Fairbairn commando knife was fine for its time, it was a rather small dagger and relatively fragile - and the fighting techniques he taught were based on fencing - again likely illegal to have on board and not a weapon that will help the average cruiser. There are dozens of better fighting knives - almost any decent modern military issue knife for example.

Since I have a catamaran and not a cramped monohull, I am actually considering a replica katana in stainless steel. Foreigners are not allowed to own firearms in the Philippines but I have seen katanas on offer here, commonly - most people think of them as decorative. I, however, have been fighting with the bamboo practice version for thirty some years (free form, not kendo) and believe that the greater length of the katana over a machete or jungle bolo would be a distinct advantage. And yes - I have also fought both double katana and katana / wakasashi combinations against both single and multiple opponents in competitive bouts.

Astrid · 03-09-2011, 20:11

Within the confines of the cabin, a thrusting weapon would be better than a cutting one. One could use about anything actually, from an assagai or gladius to small sword or épée. The latter two would be good as they are quick in trained hands and have a decent reach, the assagai and gladius would probably not be quite so good as they were a part of an offensive weapons system dependent on having a shield both for defence and to mask the nature of your intended thrust.

For that matter, defending the companion way with a boat hook, which is not unlike some medieval pole arms, could be effective. In fact, the thought of confronting and angry Zee at the bottom of a companion way waiting for me with a boat hook kinda sends shivers down my spine.

**minaret** · 03-09-2011, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrid

Within the confines of the cabin, a thrusting weapon would be better than a cutting one. One could use about anything actually, from an assagai or gladius to small sword or épée. The latter two would be good as they are quick in trained hands and have a decent reach, the assagai and gladius would probably not be quite so good as they were a part of an offensive weapons system dependent on having a shield both for defence and to mask the nature of your intended thrust.

For that matter, defending the companion way with a boat hook, which is not unlike some medieval pole arms, could be effective. In fact, the thought of confronting and angry Zee at the bottom of a companion way waiting for me with a boat hook kinda sends shivers down my spine.

I noticed in another thread that you mentioned you fence. I do as well, though not competitively or even all that seriously. I attend Salle Auriol here in Seattle. It's a great school, as they teach Saber as well as Foil and Epee. The only school I know of around here that teaches Saber. The style is vaguely similar to how you would use a cutlass. I agree about a thrusting weapon in a confined space, but I think a foil would be to long. You'd only have one chance before it came to grappling. I'd honestly rather have a good knife and a superior vantage point. I suggested the Kukri and Smatchet because both would easily be taken for a regular bush knife/bolo/machete by most customs. I mentioned the Sykes-Fairbairn knife in passing because most people recognize it but did not recommend it for carrying aboard. Look at the Smatchet, it's a machete redesigned for thrusting. Very similar to a gladius, but probably much heavier. It easily chops wood.
Try screwing this onto a boathook extension pole. Maybe you can tell them it's for gaffing fish or something...

Amazon.com: SOG Specialty Knives & Tools FS01-N Spirit Knife, Black Oxide: Home Improvement

Astrid · 03-09-2011, 22:29

That is an interesting idea!

Bruce626 · 04-09-2011, 06:35

It is hard to tell if the spirit knife has a hollow handle for the insertion of a pole - but if so it could make a serviceable spear point and does have some cutting ability. I am not a fan of the barbs which would slow one in getting the weapon back from the opponent or his clothing - but being small, they should not hang up too badly.

Another potential addition to a pole is the 'bush knife' made by Cold Steel which does have a socketed handle pre-drilled for a pin. This is an inexpensive knife which is edged only on one side and has a servicable in-line point for stabbing. One need not mount it on the pole until needed as it would only take moments to fit the socket of the knife to the prepared taper of the pole and press home the pin, and one can choose the length of the pole to suit the circumstances. One can use it at longer range initially and then choke up the haft if the opponent attempts to close. In these circumstances one uses lightning fast thrusts going out and back similar to using a pool cue. Given the longer curved edge - about eight inches if I remember correctly - one can also deliver a powerful slash as well. There are no barbs or cross-guards to hang up in the body or clothing.

Keeping the point of your weapon pointed directly at the opponent's eyes means that he will have a difficult time seeing it start to move - especially under conditions of low visibility. Sliding your rear grip up to your lead hand (relaxed to let the haft move smoothly) also makes it difficult to see any movement has started. Slightly dropping the lead hand means that one can target the throat area if desired or simply thrust through the eye socket. It is nearly impossible to react to such a thrust before it strikes home and difficult to parry a spear point thrust with a knife or machete. I have won numerous competitive bouts with this technique, even when the striking end of the spear was four inches across and the bout was in bright daylight (of course my opponent did not have a knife but typically also had a thrusting weapon, sword and shield, or double weapons - and was experienced in facing a thrusting spear). I would rate the odds of a person in the dark and carrying a knife or machete reacting to such a thrust in time to be effective to be very low - especially if they have not faced a spear thrust before.

Several other options are also possible: the use of a small but powerful light such as the SureFire Defender in the lead hand could be used to blind and illuminate the intruder as the thrust was being made; and/or some might recommend a loud shout to distract or startle the intruder. Such actions might depend on the number of suspected intruders and if you want to remain concealed in the dark in an attempt to use the element of surprise a second time.

One can easily practice - first with just the pole - using a medium size ball suspended from a line. As the ball bounces around your hand eye coordination gets better and one can then reduce the size of the ball - eventually being able to consistently hit a moving tennis ball. Then add the bush knife (hard on the tennis ball), and then practice at dusk and at night. If one has crew, teach them to play as well - with both people striking the ball it moves erratically and both get better (and it is a fun competitive game).

Feral Cement · 04-09-2011, 07:03

Does anyone out there carry a spear gun for fishing? Decent range in air, fairly accurate, and menacing as all git out. By the time I'm down to PB Blaster for self-defense, I'm also using my hands, feet, teeth, etc. If it were life and death, I'd shot someone on board with my flare gun.

John

zeehag · 04-09-2011, 09:47

spear guns are illegal in mexico.

i think my kitchen knives are a good source of fear to anyone coming in boat...easy to get to and mine..\lol.. i would love to be able to come out my hatch overhead with a slightly shorter than regulation cutlass kind of slicer-dicer and scare the sh** out of an intruder.

steak knives i dont usually use and are expendable and my hatch over my bed is great for surprising uninvited wanna be malicious guests. i would keep the lovely decorative swordlet over my bed.....not visible from companionway.

Feral Cement · 04-09-2011, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

spear guns are illegal in mexico.

No shhhhh.....kidding? I got the shhhhh.....crap scared out of me by a spearfisherman near Playa del Carmen a few years back. New rules?

John

zeehag · 04-09-2011, 10:01

not sure if new--is written in the conapesca info given with the license to cause fishies great distress....i know in 1998 we were boarde at coronados and searched for them and other fishing gear--they did specifically ask about the speargun.. we had none. (mexican navy likes to board folks there).

**capngeo** · 04-09-2011, 10:29

If you don’t have SD training with a blade, don’t try it! A trained (or experienced) assailant will take it off you faster than you could see happen!

A squeeze bottle full of Lacquer Thinner or Acetone sprayed in the face will stop Man or Beast right now.... and is legal and explainable on any boat in any country....

Feral Cement · 06-09-2011, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by capngeo

A squeeze bottle full of Lacquer Thinner or Acetone sprayed in the face will stop Man or Beast right now.... and is legal and explainable on any boat in any country....

I've seen trigger spray bottles with 20' range.....

John