Want to go Privateering?

[Cheechako]

Fox Entertainment...

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

...Further, we have to consider the Congress of Paris in 1856. This was a diplomatic meeting seeking a resolution to the Crimean War. It included a set of declarations regarding maritime law. The most significant of these declarations was to abolish privateering. The US and Russia both signed this declaration...

The US did not sign the Declaration of the Congress of Paris (funny, though, that that congress was the result of a war in Crimea). The US has, on a number of occasions, agreed to abide by the terms of the Declaration, but it is not signatory to the Declaration.

On the conclusion of the Treaty of Paris on 30 March 1856 which ended the Crimean War (1853-1856), the Plenipotentiaries also signed the present Declaration. It is the outcome of a modus vivendi which was adopted between France and the United Kingdom in 1854 and was originally intended for the Crimean War. Both Powers recognized that they would not seize enemy goods on neutral vessels nor neutral goods on enemy vessels. The belligerents furthermore proclaimed that they would not issue letters of marque. The Declaration of Paris confirmed these rules and added to them the principle that blockades, in order to be binding, must be effective. Virtually all States acceded to the Declaration. The United States, which aimed at a complete exemption of private property from capture at sea, withheld its formal adherence, its amendment not having been accepted by all the Powers. In 1861, at the beginning of the Civil War, the United States announced nevertheless that it would respect the principles of the Declaration for the duration of the hostilities.

Equally, in 1898 during the war against Spain, it was affirmed that the policy of the government of the United States would be to abide by the provisions of the Declaration throughout the hostilities. The rules laid down in the Declaration were later considered as part of general international law and even the United States, which is not formally a party thereto, abides by its provisions.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ihl/INTRO/105

That the US abides by the Declaration is only a matter of policy, which can be changed at whim, and the power to issue letters still resides in Congress and the executive.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

The US did not sign the Declaration of the Congress of Paris (funny, though, that that congress was the result of a war in Crimea). The US has, on a number of occasions, agreed to abide by the terms of the Declaration, but it is not signatory to the Declaration.



That the US abides by the Declaration is only a matter of policy, which can be changed at whim, and the power to issue letters still resides in Congress and the executive.

Huh, thanks for the correction! Funny that the stated reason the US didn't sign is because the declaration did not go far enough in protecting commercial vessels from being targeted. Makes a lot of sense in the context of 1812 though.

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Huh, thanks for the correction! Funny that the stated reason the US didn't sign is because the declaration did not go far enough in protecting commercial vessels from being targeted. Makes a lot of sense in the context of 1812 though.

Yes, kind of funny that the US declined to sign because the Declaration didn't restrict letters of marque enough

[JebLostInSpace]

Okay, so what would be the best targets for our hypothetical privateers? What's the value of the hull and goods on a container ship vs. an oil or LNG tanker vs. a mega yacht?

The cargo ships would probably be much harder to take, but I assume worth a lot more.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Okay, so what would be the best targets for our hypothetical privateers? What's the value of the hull and goods on a container ship vs. an oil or LNG tanker vs. a mega yacht?

The cargo ships would probably be much harder to take, but I assume worth a lot more.

First acquire yacht capable of doing about 18 knots

Then a way to get up a 30 foot steel wall

A small issue of enough small arms

The yacht could perhaps then tow the tanker to the required port! Or not

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Hey...You're the one that started politically. I don't think Shrew was triggered at all just pointing out the reality that media like Fox, Breitbart and Newsmax are not considered news. perhaps you were the one triggered.

Except by about 30% of the USA population! Who dwell in the lower slope of the bell curve.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

To get us out of the realm of politics and back to the point:



The last time US Congress issued letters of marque was during the war of 1812. The CSA issued them during the civil war as well, although even by that time privateering was considered mostly obsolete.



Further, we have to consider the Congress of Paris in 1856. This was a diplomatic meeting seeking a resolution to the Crimean War. It included a set of declarations regarding maritime law. The most significant of these declarations was to abolish privateering. The US and Russia both signed this declaration, and are therefore bound by international law to prohibit privateering when at war with each other. Interestingly, these declarations apply only when 2 countries that signed the declaration are at war with each other. If the US were to go to war with a country that did not sign, we would be allowed by international law to use privateers.



Now, given that the conditions of the Congress of Paris fell apart when France was defeated in the French-Prussian War, an argument could probably be made that the Declaration of Paris is obsolete and no longer applies, although I'm guessing it would be a complicated issue of international law.



There are also reports of Russia committing much more serious breaches of international law during this conflict, so from a moral standpoint I doubt anyone would be too upset if the US did issue letters of marque against Russia.



Another interesting little tidbit comes from this quote from a letter of marque issued during the revolutionary war which instructs the vessel to "to fit out and set forth…in a warlike manner…and by force of arms to attack, subdue, seize, and take all ships and other vessels…belonging to the King or Crown of Great Britain." This implies to my non-lawyer mind that a letter of marque expressly allows a private vessel to purchase arms and munitions for the purpose. If I got a letter of marque for my 41' sailboat, could I buy torpedoes and giant cannons for it? I mean, I couldn't afford them, but maybe the bank would loan me the money if they thought I could capture a giant container ship or something with them and sell the cargo to repay the debt. That could be fun.



Sources:

https://research.mysticseaport.org/i.../l006405-c023/



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_of_Paris_(1856)



https://history.stackexchange.com/qu...-marque-issued



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_...igning_parties

Good related book: "Sea of Gray" about Privateering during the US Civil War.

https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Gray-Arou.../dp/0809085046

[Russ]

It’s not crap
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2022/03...erchant-ships/

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

First acquire yacht capable of doing about 18 knots

Then a way to get up a 30 foot steel wall

A small issue of enough small arms

The yacht could perhaps then tow the tanker to the required port! Or not

Somali fishermen have some expertise in this area.

[Lionshooter]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

First acquire yacht capable of doing about 18 knots

Then a way to get up a 30-foot steel wall

A small issue of enough small arms

The yacht could perhaps then tow the tanker to the required port! Or not

If you need more info on the How-To, take lessons from the bunch of renegade Somalians who have perfected the technique.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Okay, so what would be the best targets for our hypothetical privateers? What's the value of the hull and goods on a container ship vs. an oil or LNG tanker vs. a mega yacht?

The cargo ships would probably be much harder to take, but I assume worth a lot more.

Hire some Somalis as crew..

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Shrew

"Fox News" is the ONLY media outlet publishing this content. I would take any 'news' from Fox as satirical.

Keep in mind that Fox News is not an accredited news station. They are accreditation is currently 'Entertainment'. Fox news broadcasts in Canada need to be marked "For Entertainment Purposes"

There are more legitimate news sources out there.

Biased much?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by mabowers

"Texas Republican Rep. Lance Gooden is expected to roll out a measure Monday that would allow private U.S. citizens to seize yachts, planes or other property belonging to sanctioned Russian citizens amid Russia's war on Ukraine.

Gooden would do it with legislation requiring President Biden to issue letters of marque and reprisal, an enumerated power of Congress mentioned in Article 1 of the Constitution, which were routinely used during the War of 1812 for Americans to seize property on behalf of the U.S. government, but have not been issued since.*"

Yacht A anyone?

Love the Mark Knopfler song "Privateering" https://youtu.be/3eSUDcPg15c

What a nutter! Typical Texass politics lol

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by HeywoodJ

Such as Huffpost maybe?

BBC World Service, Al Jazeera, CNN all leaps and bounds more accurate and balanced coverage than Faux News.