US Practice of Deposit with Boat Purchase

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by pablothesailor

There is a big difference between making an offer........and asking the broker if he thinks the seller would be prepared to lower the asking price and what that price would be!! How can you make an offer if you dont know if the seller is flexible?? My point since the start of this thread has been the following, would I be prepared to put down 10% just to find out if the seller would be flexible? No, absolutely not! However, once I knew whether the seller was flexible and I had an idea of what that figure was, would I be prepared to put down 10% (subject to survey) on an offer, yes I would! So, a BIG NO to 10% for a simple enquiry......but a yes if I got to the stage of wanting to make a solid bid to buy the boat!

Fair statement. I missed your main point, obviously. Still, I think that you can expect most brokers to counter with, "Well, make an offer & accompany it with a deposit & we'll find out.", or words to that effect. If the broker spent time asking the seller(s) questions based on each inquiry, he/she would be working a lot of hours that didn't pay. I'd suggest that you just operate under the assumption that every boat is negotiable.

[pablothesailor]

Originally Posted by bangkaboat

Fair statement. I missed your main point, obviously. Still, I think that you can expect most brokers to counter with, "Well, make an offer & accompany it with a deposit & we'll find out.", or words to that effect. If the broker spent time asking the seller(s) questions based on each inquiry, he/she would be working a lot of hours that didn't pay. I'd suggest that you just operate under the assumption that every boat is negotiable.

Again, i feel the need to bring up what i mentioned earlier regarding a property we are selling, i dont ask for a deposit to show someone around (even though its a 2 hour round journey for me), i understand that there will be the odd time waster! Looking at the boating world I do think its time for everyone to calm down a bit and get of thier ¨¨high horses¨¨, I do fully understand that If someone is expecting trial sailing on the boat, etc that its only fair that a deposit should be paid, however, to expect anyone to pay 10% for just picking up the phone and asking you a question about a boat.....well, thats just crazy??

[Tingum]

Bottom line is that EVERYTHING is negotiable! If you do not like something in the brokers "standard contract" strike it or change it! If that broker does not like it find another. Any broker can submit a contract on another brokers listing.

[s/v Jedi]

Pablo,

I tried to tell you that it isn't as bad as it sounds with buying a boat in the USA. You are mostly outraged about the perceived arrogance of our Yankee friends... but it isn't really arrogance, it's just that they are different and they are so used to their ways that they think it's weird when others have different points of view. Talk to them, tell them you are serious and want to make a honest offer but want to talk a bit before sending money because that's the way it works where you come from. If they can bring up a bit of respect for that I'm sure you can work it out... we did too.

If the broker does not want to discuss price of a "probably acceptable" offer with you before paying 10% then give him your phone number and tell him to call you when he's ready to talk but you will reduce your offer 1% every day.

ciao!
Nick.

[pablothesailor]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Pablo,

I tried to tell you that it isn't as bad as it sounds with buying a boat in the USA. You are mostly outraged about the perceived arrogance of our Yankee friends... but it isn't really arrogance, it's just that they are different and they are so used to their ways that they think it's weird when others have different points of view. Talk to them, tell them you are serious and want to make a honest offer but want to talk a bit before sending money because that's the way it works where you come from. If they can bring up a bit of respect for that I'm sure you can work it out... we did too.

If the broker does not want to discuss price of a "probably acceptable" offer with you before paying 10% then give him your phone number and tell him to call you when he's ready to talk but you will reduce your offer 1% every day.

ciao!
Nick.

Well put Nick, nearly as good as Hugh Grant on question time last night ! I can only speak as I find, there seems to be a certain ¨arrogance¨ from certain ¨sellers¨, brokers and private alike, maybe its because they are angry that they have to sell thier boat ! Anyway, out of interest we have called a USA broker today regarding a boat we have seen on his web site, my 1st question to him was did I need to pay him 10% deposit to ask him any questions regarding the possibility of reductions on boats he currently had listed...he roared with laughter for nearly a full minute!! He has already emailed me 4 listings he feels may be happy to reduce thier asking price that could fit our budget, he has asked me for NOTHING to show I will 100% buy from him, and he has promised to keep in touch, he knows that we have not even decided yet if we will buy in the USA or EU!!
My faith is restored in the good old USA, others out there would be wise to learn from our ¨Mr Nice Guy¨!!

[DeepBlueSea]

It comes down to the individual broker and how he applies this 10% thing. I understand what Pablo is saying and don't particularly disagree. Its crazy to expect 10% before alot of basic questions are answered certainly. Maybe some brokers apply it that rigidly but I think its foolish. It becomes an issue when someone is making a serious offer with the intent to buy based on personal inspection, assessed value, surveys/surveyor etc. Thats where the flexibility and support of the broker comes in and its to his and the sellers best interest to manage that. Kinda common sense really. When its applied rigidly and stupidly its counter productive for everyone, but a necessary part of the game at the right point is all I am saying.

[SaltyMonkey]

So, pablothesailor, let me get this straight...you based this whole conversation in this thread and your conclusions about USA purchase practices on ONE experience with ONE broker, when we have told you all along it varies from broker to broker and its YOUR decision?? Then, here you are all lovey dovey with a broker and think you can trust him 100% even though he might be just kissing your arse and you are buying all his noddy doddy?

"Oh sure we can" HAHAHAHAAH!!

So, who is he really laughing at?

[Cheechako]

There are a lot of negotiators out there who want to feel out where the seller is without a committment. The deposit means you're serious. Often a Broker will take a scanned copy of a check as a token that you are serious. Not sure being out of country though.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Often a Broker will take a scanned copy of a check as a token that you are serious.

Which is viewed as absolutely ludicrous by many/most people outside the USA. Or am I stupid and can the broker cash that using the scanned copy?!

ciao!
Nick.

[SaltyMonkey]

No the broker cannot. I don't quite understand it either Jedi, but I assume with a photo copy it somehow proves intention. If you are holding a check in your hands but not cashing it (as said some brokers do this), then really there is no difference, is there? The check writer could still cancel the check while you are holding it.

Having some proof of intention may be good enough?

[pablothesailor]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

So, pablothesailor, let me get this straight...you based this whole conversation in this thread and your conclusions about USA purchase practices on ONE experience with ONE broker, when we have told you all along it varies from broker to broker and its YOUR decision?? Then, here you are all lovey dovey with a broker and think you can trust him 100% even though he might be just kissing your arse and you are buying all his noddy doddy?

"Oh sure we can" HAHAHAHAAH!!

So, who is he really laughing at?

Im in love with my new broker, he loves me to

[SaltyMonkey]

oh something important to consider here came to mind.

There can be multiple brokers involved in selling the yacht at the same time - one listing broker and many selling brokers..within and/or externally to the same brokerage house. This is another reason that the broker would want a 10% + PA up front. The seller may not want to haggle and answer every request in this kind of atmosphere with multiple parties and threads of relationships going.

[ErikFinn]

Wow, 6 pages of replies, thank you guys!

I suppose I should decide if I can trust the broker (a foreigner whom I don't know) or not. I have bought and sold houses in the past (and paid & received the deposit AFTER the offer was accepted), but in this case I find it difficult to trust someone asking for your money in order to be able to hear what the price might be...

Sure my offer is on the low side, it's about 30% below the asking price, but then again: Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. (Syrus, Publilius), and I don't want to pay any more than I have to.

The previous broker with whom I was in contact with about 2 months ago (located in Florida) did NOT require anything in advance. I made an offer on an Irwin 65 but it was not accepted. Eventually the yacht sold for less than what I had offered.

Anyway, here is the latest exchange, my first (in case you guys are interested):

Hi (broker),
I'm not accustomed to pay a 10% deposit before knowing if the offer is accepted. I'm seriously in the market, and would be happy to pay the 10% deposit to an escrow account after the offer is accepted.
What I could do is to pay 1,000 USD upfront as a part payment of the deposit.
Best regards,
Erik

Hi Erik,
I have already received offers higher than yours but have not submitted them due to lack of deposit. Please see the survey report I have just received from 2009
which will answer some of your questions.
Regards,
(broker)

[cheoah]

Pablo, no broker should require a deposit to ask questions, unless it is an offer couched as a question. You get to wear him out all you want but you have to paint between the lines when it comes to making offers. I don't see how this is an American issue, if I do business in Europe, I presume it would be done differently and if I want to do business there I do it their way.

Best I can tell, you've made a lowball offer and the sellers broker is just following protocol. He's not asking you to make a deposit to ask general questions, is he? "Will your seller take $100,000" is not a general query about the boat. Fish or cut bait is what we say here, and perhaps there is a cultural barrier for this broker making things worse.

In my past deals, a faxed copy of the check and signed contract was enough to tie the boat up, but obviously the check then has to be MAILED after this.

I made an offer site- unseen as we say on my current boat. It saved a trip to Florida but I still had an out with sea trial. The guy that bought my boat recently had a surveyor do a walk through then he made an offer. Then he never showed for sea trial and we closed anyway! Different strokes.

Sound like you have a buyers broker now and you're happy with that. What does that cost? Good luck with the search, most purchase prices can be worked out before you mail a check in my experience

csh

[pablothesailor]

Originally Posted by ErikFinn

Wow, 6 pages of replies, thank you guys!

I suppose I should decide if I can trust the broker (a foreigner whom I don't know) or not. I have bought and sold houses in the past (and paid & received the deposit AFTER the offer was accepted), but in this case I find it difficult to trust someone asking for your money in order to be able to hear what the price might be...

Sure my offer is on the low side, it's about 30% below the asking price, but then again: Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. (Syrus, Publilius), and I don't want to pay any more than I have to.

The previous broker with whom I was in contact with about 2 months ago (located in Florida) did NOT require anything in advance. I made an offer on an Irwin 65 but it was not accepted. Eventually the yacht sold for less than what I had offered.

Anyway, here is the latest exchange, my first (in case you guys are interested):

Hi (broker),
I'm not accustomed to pay a 10% deposit before knowing if the offer is accepted. I'm seriously in the market, and would be happy to pay the 10% deposit to an escrow account after the offer is accepted.
What I could do is to pay 1,000 USD upfront as a part payment of the deposit.
Best regards,
Erik

Hi Erik,
I have already received offers higher than yours but have not submitted them due to lack of deposit. Please see the survey report I have just received from 2009
which will answer some of your questions.
Regards,
(broker)

Erik,
What a pompous plank.........why deal with someone like him?? Surely his answer should be ¨Dear Eric, thanks for your email, your offer is not quite high enough, however, after talking with the owner they would be prepared to settle on $$$$.....if this is of interest to you please send me a deposit of $$$$ to hold the boat, we can then start to make arrangements for the rest of your purchase,
Kind regads,
Broker¨


PS...I dont believe he has had any offers by the way!! Plus, he is probably 100 years old plus