Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Ha! ;-)

And more seriously: not sure our power budget would allow us running one (other than brief periods). Having a radar onboard and not using it could be as good as not having one.

Actually, from the point of view of the collision regulations, it's WORSE to have radar and not use it.

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Where we sail, there are no fogs, but there are rain squalls and then there are long periods of torrential rain - a radar would be a great help then, I think.. ..

So I guess you don't have night where you are, either?

Kidding aside, recreational radars are not much use in torrential rains.

But the newer radars with much better signal processing are a brilliant enhancement to watchkeeping, even in broad daylight. Because the guard zones now don't produce many false alarms. Guard zone on a good radar set will save your behind at night, too.

[DumnMad]

So, Dockhead are you suggesting that for a few thousand Barney could make us all a little bit safer if he used radar?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

(...)

But the newer radars with much better signal processing are a brilliant enhancement to watchkeeping, even in broad daylight. Because the guard zones now don't produce many false alarms. Guard zone on a good radar set will save your behind at night, too.

Yes. I looked up some of the small leisure HD / broadband units and they all seemed somewhat better than older units much as nothing beats an open array antenna imho. I had old style open array radars on boats I sailed as a kid. Those cut thru the rain quite well.

As for night sailing - I think I can see shipping much better by night. All the times I got 'found out' in the most dishonourable way was by day - I look round, see nothing, read a chapter and - BOOOM - the cargo is half a mile away and steaming our way.

But the big things like cargo etc. they all carry a powerful AIS today so they are no worry, the small pleasure and fishing things are what can hurt us - they are less visible and fewer have AIS onboard.

b.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. I looked up some of the small leisure HD / broadband units and they all seemed somewhat better than older units much as nothing beats an open array antenna imho. I had old style open array radars on boats I sailed as a kid. Those cut thru the rain quite well.

As for night sailing - I think I can see shipping much better by night. All the times I got 'found out' in the most dishonourable way was by day - I look round, see nothing, read a chapter and - BOOOM - the cargo is half a mile away and steaming our way.

But the big things like cargo etc. they all carry a powerful AIS today so they are no worry, the small pleasure and fishing things are what can hurt us - they are less visible and fewer have AIS onboard.

b.

Sure. Anything showing lights and/or broadcasting AIS is easy to spot at night. I like crossing the Channel at night, actually, because I find it much easier to understand a ship's aspects from her lights, than from a daylight view of her hull.

But we were talking about abandoned boats. And other stuff floating around out there not showing lights or broadcasting AIS. I have avoided all kinds of things at night which radar warned me about, from fishing boats intentionally not broadcasting AIS, to wind farms. Also buoys out of position.

Agree with you about open arrays. I drool over the new HALO open array radars. Too bad it's so hard to find a place to put them on a sailboat.

[hpeer]

I'm not sure how a wind vane covers you for a spare rudder unless you have an auxiliary rudder type. Is there some way to rig a servo pendulum to steer the boat in lieu of a rudder?

The rudders in our boats are quite sturdy, hard to see how they could fall off. But the steering gear might go kaput.

The small boat has an aux rudder vane, the big boat has a permanent topside tiller in addition to the wheel. The Aries drives the tiller which I could use in emergency.

Both have radar, but the power budget sort of precludes their constant use. I do use it at night when approaching an anchorage in the event someone is not showing a light.

[masonc]

The rudder on my Voyager windvane turns my wheel. I could use the lines to force it to turn, which would tend to turn the boat. With the sails well balanced, I could sail before the wind or reach well enough to get close enough to be towed in. That's all you need to survive.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by masonc

The rudder on my Voyager windvane turns my wheel. I could use the lines to force it to turn, which would tend to turn the boat. With the sails well balanced, I could sail before the wind or reach well enough to get close enough to be towed in. That's all you need to survive.

And if the same thing that took off your rudder wipes the windvane rudder clear?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by masonc

The rudder on my Voyager windvane turns my wheel. I could use the lines to force it to turn, which would tend to turn the boat. With the sails well balanced, I could sail before the wind or reach well enough to get close enough to be towed in. That's all you need to survive.

Interesting, I see they say......
"Voyager Vanes can be easily adapted in order to have them steer by means of light electronic autopilots so that your yacht will self steer when motoring (in dead calms for example)."

I've done that it's my Aries. I'm not seeing how it would steer a boat without a rudder though.

[barnakiel]

This is interesting. I have only this far seen Voyagers with pendulum driving the main rudder.

Can you post an image?

You will be aware that even with its own rudder (uncommon), windvanes can only steer the boat well WHEN THE MAIN RUDDER IS PRESENT. Windvane rudders (when present) have only about 1/3 of the required rudder area.

Another factor is that downwind the boat is least stable.

b.

[ErikFinn]

I like the SOS Pilot solution offered by Windpilot:

WINDPILOT - Products: SOS Rudder

[hpeer]

Win pilot is of the auxiliary rudder type.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I suggest you read Taleb's book 'The Black Swan'. Next talk to Vincent Riou who by your 'incalculably small odds' hit an abandoned ocean buoy, cut his topsides and the waterstay of his outrigger and abandoned.

Incalculably small can actually count much more than we like to think. This is called a cognitive bias.

And then I can tell you my first hand experiences from hitting objects in the open sea.

You mention lottery tickets but you do not mention people win. Just in this lottery you lose. And it can as well be your life.

I am not sure where you sail. We cross oceans. I have seen very many very dangerous objects and we hit some. We were very lucky not to hit the "wrong" ones.

In some threads we discuss the number of collisions with UFOs, in another we claim UFOs are not dangerous.

Probably a subject for a new thread.

This boat got abandoned and has not been retrieved yet. Let's hope she washes up somewhere on a sandy beach and her owners can get her go places one day.

Cheers,
b.

I've seen enough large dangerous objects floating in the daytime to spend most of every night passage wondering if I am going to find one. On our last passage to the Bahamas (in the daytime) we had to steer around a large timber we came upon that was just barely visible and floating right at the surface. In fact, if it hadn't been such a calm day, I'm not sure I would have seen it to dodge it.

Another epiphany was finding a giant barnacle encrusted steel buoy (about five feet in diameter and about ten feet long, washed up on the beach in the area we sail. And, wondering how long it had been floating out there, waiting to sink someone.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Group9

I've seen enough large dangerous objects floating in the daytime to spend most of every night passage wondering if I am going to find one. On our last passage to the Bahamas (in the daytime) we had to steer around a large timber we came upon that was just barely visible and floating right at the surface. In fact, if it hadn't been such a calm day, I'm not sure I would have seen it to dodge it.

Another epiphany was finding a giant barnacle encrusted steel buoy (about five feet in diameter and about ten feet long, washed up on the beach in the area we sail. And, wondering how long it had been floating out there, waiting to sink someone.

Nobody is denying that there's a lot of stuff you can run into out there. However, the position that the OP should have scuttled his vessel in order to keep someone from accidentally running into is simply absurd.

[yvest]

Any update on this one ?

[Alastair A]

All support and respect to the OP for original action in adversity at sea. Also for keeping all souls on the vessel safe during life risk rescue. Best wishes for all CF. Cheers. A.