Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Sorry, no radar here.

There sure was a radar on the abandoned boat, no? Many many nice buttons to push. One too many perhaps.

Was their AIS left on when abandoning? Were the lights on? Did the boat fly the signals showing she was not under control? I think there are such signals mentioned in the Colregs. I cannot see them in the video.

How far from the Caribbean they abandoned?

If the boat was not sinking, or sunk, it should not be abandoned. The crew can be transferred to another ship, then the skipper can keep on limping on. Or is Atlantic there, at this time, too dangerous for such an attempt?

I imagined the luck struck on the trade wind passage to the West Indies, in the good season. I must have misinterpreted the video. Sorry for that.

Try talking people into abandoning their cars on the road. The ones still on the road may disagree somewhat on how safe such a practice is.

b.

Same to you...I agree whole heartedly, but their boat broke, and then it broke again with the skipper doing exactly what you say here....try to limp it to shore...he did, and his ship broke some more...

all on the scene thought it was the right decision to make.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It may sound ;-) or hahaha or even nazdrovie till the point you actually happen upon such a wreckage when sailing.

Boats abandoned should be scuttled. Why expose other sailors to the risk?

If you think the boat is not about to sink, then why abandon? Cold feet?

b.

I suppose you are on the side of the Japanese whalers Barney.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

I would agree with you wholeheartedly...and in fact do, but in this case their boat broke, and as it normally does, it broke some more.

I know it broke.. that's why I said they were being tossed around out of control.. no rudder..
But the other breakages were minor in comparison.. a mainsheet and a couple of other easily juried things.. his main task was to try and bring the boat under some control with a drogue of the stern till the weather/seas eased.
Unfortunately it seems.. he opted for the bow which would have been a waste of time.

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Vide post 708. The boat was not insured. So where is your position now?

If a boat however IS insured, and you crash into it, will the insurer pay?

Let me know.

b.

Don't quote me, but I would think it would be treated like hitting a car broken down on the road. Its the drivers responsibility to stop, steer as needed to avoid a stationary object.

Now, if you boat was docked and the abandoned boat drifted into you, you might have the basis for a claim.

[barnakiel]

Yep.

Very many good observations from all sides. Maybe I would end up tied in an endless and futile battle by suing.

It might be that much as in my head not scuttling is not right, taking the matter to a court would only create a costly nightmare for me.

I am adding a bumper on my boat next thing, I think ;-)

barnakiel

[Rocinante33]

I do not wish to be a curmudgeon here but it seems most unlikely that this boat would still be afloat at all.

When abandoned the engine was left running at low idle which would last a few days at best and with the boat wallowing it seems like a stall would be a likely-what with a sail partly up and no rudder control.

OP stated no solar, no wind, so bilge pumps are going to be working pretty furiously on a dwindling battery. Hatch is wide open, and although there is a dodger, it seems likely that significant water would be entering the salon.

Once bilge pump winks out, how much water would be required to assist the motor in guiding the boat one way to the briny bottom? Even assuming that the porthole seals and hatch covers do not leak at all. The balance of probability seems to me to be in favor of the boat sinking.

I am not saying this to be a brat, and I hope very much for OP and his family that his boat drifts into port unscathed. It just seems that an unskippered and rudderless vessel, sails luffing, hatch open and no ability to drain herself would not likely be floating four months later.

I hate being a Monday AM QB, and that is not my intention, but I have wondered all along why OP could not fashion some kind of fabric or tarp around the frame of the original rudder and get some steerage that way. I have wondered if a combination of tarp or even bedsheet, lashed around the frame (big zipties? extra sheet?) might produce enough solid surface to allow the ruder to function. (kind of like the cloth wings of an old biplane). Not second guessing, just wondering what I might be able to do if faced with the same situation.

Hopes and prayers to OP and kudos to Tilly Mint captain and crew!

[John Holbrook]

What difference would a drogue off the stern made and why was a drogue off the bow a waste of time?

I would have thought that if you were trying to fix the rudder a drogue from the bow was the correct choice.

Originally Posted by boatman61

But the other breakages were minor in comparison.. a mainsheet and a couple of other easily juried things.. his main task was to try and bring the boat under some control with a drogue of the stern till the weather/seas eased.
Unfortunately it seems.. he opted for the bow which would have been a waste of time.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Now, if you boat was docked and the abandoned boat drifted into you, you might have the basis for a claim.

Don't you believe it !

I had the boat next to me break it's old perished ropes and break my windows. The A/Hole promised he would pay for it. Hopped on his boat and headed for Tassie.

His insurance denied the claim stating it was storm damage and he wont pay.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

What difference would a drogue off the stern made and why was a drogue off the bow a waste of time?

I would have thought that if you were trying to fix the rudder a drogue from the bow was the correct choice.

Don't know if you've noticed but when the wind catches your beam it moves your bow downwind as opposed to your stern so a long drogue off the stern will bring the stern into the seas.. one can then adjust for taking the sea a bit more on the stern quarter making for a more comfortable ride..
A drogue of the bow will only work if its a sea anchor designed to stop you.. else you may as well lay ahull.
As for working on the rudder.. if that's failed (as in this case) all you can do is try and construct a jury rudder with your spinnaker pole.. if you have one.. or ride the weather until it eases enough for you to start experimenting with drogue steering.. and a line/bridle on your stern cleats is not exactly an impediment to this endeavour.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It may sound ;-) or hahaha or even nazdrovie till the point you actually happen upon such a wreckage when sailing.

Boats abandoned should be scuttled. Why expose other sailors to the risk?

If you think the boat is not about to sink, then why abandon? Cold feet?

b.

Ok , so then, the question that needs asking is : In the same circumstances would you have ridden it out or scuttled Your boat? Can that even be answered?

[thruska]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep.

Very many good observations from all sides. Maybe I would end up tied in an endless and futile battle by suing.

It might be that much as in my head not scuttling is not right, taking the matter to a court would only create a costly nightmare for me.

I am adding a bumper on my boat next thing, I think ;-)

barnakiel

Yes I agree , lots of speculation all around.
In the case of a similar situation, such as hitting upon a submerged container , would you be able to sue ? That is of course if you did not sink and drown. Or sink the container and not I.d. It. Or sink both and your side of story in question by everyone. Or if you hit dove and she sunk or you sunk or both .... lots of speculation for sure. I suppose it's moot until it actually happens.

Cheers ( English) nasdrowie (polishOr Czech) glasses clinking

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How far from the Caribbean were they actually when they abandoned?

I know of at least one boat that lost her rudder last year and then was 'sailed' to the Caribbean. I think like about 100 days, I can check this out if you want. Must have been more than 1000 miles under jury rudder.

b.

As I said, that's what I would hope to do.

But "hope" from your armchair, and "do", in the ocean, in a real crisis, may be totally different things.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sandero]

The boat was not seen and it's four or more months. Doesn't mean it sank. Unless it's pretty calm and that is not a common condition where the incident happened it would be very difficult to do much of anything on a boat being tossed about by the waves. He had no one to help him as his wife was probably trying to calm the children. He had no provision apparently for emergency steering or a plan and materials. tools knowledge to jury rig it.

Apparently he had no alt charging sources and relied on his engine and that alone was not prudent for an ocean passage. If and when his engine pooped out he would soon run out of power... have to hand steer and lose the abilty to use the radio or have lighting.

If the above "facts" are largely true this was a man who was not and had not prepared for the passage and jeopardized his family. I believe Hanse's have had some serious rudder problems and this should have been a red flag as well for choosing a boat and preparing it for an ocean passage.

Seems as if he had all his financial eggs in that one basket... certainly not enough to replace the boat and carry on with his plan... assuming he got the family off alive and they were not scared sh*tless of sailing. I would bet his wife had had enough and will never set foot on a boat again. I wouldn't blame her.

All of this is Monday morning quarterbacking... which is all that can be done knowing the bits and pieces that we do. Sailing offshore is a very serious endeavor and requires LOTS of planning for all manner of contingencies.. and this includes spares, tools, skills, strategies and of course adequate electrical power & alternate charging sources.

The family is fortunate to have escaped with their lives. They probably should have scuttled the boat and returned home to reflect and PREPARE themselves for their future... whatever that may be. I would be surprised if it includes boats.

One lesson is that failures will cascade and become critical to the mission and unstoppable.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It may sound ;-) or hahaha or even nazdrovie till the point you actually happen upon such a wreckage when sailing.

Boats abandoned should be scuttled. Why expose other sailors to the risk?

If you think the boat is not about to sink, then why abandon? Cold feet?

b.

Here's a question: if you have insurance & you scuttle your boat to keep it from becoming a hazard to navigation do you void your policy?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Here's a question: if you have insurance & you scuttle your boat to keep it from becoming a hazard to navigation do you void your policy?

Excellent question..
Alternatively one could set up a slow scuttle so that you and your rescuer are well over the horizon at the final 'Glug'.