Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If I crashed into this thing I would immediately sue the owners.

Why? That's what insurance is for. Your company just contacts theirs. They pay up. If need be, its the insurance company (either yours, theirs, or both) that sues the owners not you personally.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It may sound ;-) or hahaha or even nazdrovie till the point you actually happen upon such a wreckage when sailing.

Boats abandoned should be scuttled. Why expose other sailors to the risk?

If you think the boat is not about to sink, then why abandon? Cold feet?

b.

If the boat cannot be steered in any particular direction then how long can the crew survive? A few days, weeks, months? Just because a boat isn't sinking does not mean the crew are in no danger.

I think no one can judge the decision of a family to abandon their home or not. That decision has to be made without knowing what will happen in either case. And those are the most difficult types of decisions we will be called to make while cruising off shore. There are no hard and fast set of rules we can consult.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

It may sound ;-) or hahaha or even nazdrovie till the point you actually happen upon such a wreckage when sailing.

Boats abandoned should be scuttled. Why expose other sailors to the risk?

If you think the boat is not about to sink, then why abandon? Cold feet?

b.

No rudder can be a pretty hopeless situation. If it happened to me, I would certainly do my best to jury rig with a drogue or whatever else I could find, but how do you know what was going on, on another guy's boat?

As to scuttling -- the boat was uninsured and the OP hoped to find the boat again. I don't blame him for not scuttling it. Something as big as that is not a particularly big hazard in my opinion. On the extremely remote chance (the ocean is big!) you get into a risk of collision situation with it, your radar guard zone will give you plenty of warning. Another's sailor's unfortunately lost boat is only one of millions of hazards floating around. Its existence does not add anything, to the necessity of effective watchkeeping.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Why? That's what insurance is for. Your company just contacts theirs. They pay up. If need be, its the insurance company (either yours, theirs, or both) that sues the owners not you personally.

Vide post 708. The boat was not insured. So where is your position now?

If a boat however IS insured, and you crash into it, will the insurer pay?

Let me know.

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No rudder can be a pretty hopeless situation. If it happened to me, I would certainly do my best to jury rig with a drogue or whatever else I could find, but how do you know what was going on, on another guy's boat?

(...)

How far from the Caribbean were they actually when they abandoned?

I know of at least one boat that lost her rudder last year and then was 'sailed' to the Caribbean. I think like about 100 days, I can check this out if you want. Must have been more than 1000 miles under jury rudder.

b.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How far from the Caribbean were they actually when they abandoned?

I know of at least one boat that lost her rudder last year and then was 'sailed' to the Caribbean. I think like about 100 days, I can check this out if you want. Must have been more than 1000 miles under jury rudder.

b.

This was already discussed quite thoroughly quite a ways back in the thread. Owner said he spent days trying to find a way to steer his boat before & after safely getting his family off. Good enough for me.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How far from the Caribbean were they actually when they abandoned?

I know of at least one boat that lost her rudder last year and then was 'sailed' to the Caribbean. I think like about 100 days, I can check this out if you want. Must have been more than 1000 miles under jury rudder.

b.

They were NE of Barbados so maybe 200nm from the islands.. wind and currents in their favour.
However.. I can sympathise somewhat with their situation if this was their first ocean crossing.
Its surprising how many folk (despite them thinking otherwise) are totally unprepared for rough weather, open ocean and nowhere to run to.. and even more who will happily sacrifice sea room for the illusion of safety.
I have had proudly experienced owners (charterers) crumble in 35kt winds and 2.5 metre sea's on a black night.. "I never realised it could be like this".. was the cry.. "I cant see anything.. I don't know what to do.."
Its easier for someone solo or with a single crew who has total confidence in you.. but when you bring a possibly inexperienced wife and a couple of kids into the equation thoughts must turn to their safety and wellbeing.. a suffering family being tossed around in 3-4metre or more sea's in an out of control boat can turn most skippers to the Abandon Ship mindset.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Vide post 708. The boat was not insured. So where is your position now?

If a boat however IS insured, and you crash into it, will the insurer pay?

Let me know.

b.

Not seen the OP say the boat wasn't insured at all. Most European marinas will not even let you enter without third party insurance (especially Spain), and he was coming from Europe, so it's unlikely he had nothing in place, probably just not on fully comp.

If you crash in to it, it's probably going to be 50-50 liability, keeping a proper watch and all that jazz. A bit like that young Aussie girl in the pink boat crashing into the tanker/container or whatever it was.

If of course he was completely uninsured, then what else hasn't he done. Register the boat? has he stolen it, given a false name. Could be anything.

Anyway, not sure why you seem so hostile.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

(...)

Something as big as that is not a particularly big hazard in my opinion. On the extremely remote chance (the ocean is big!) you get into a risk of collision situation with it, your radar guard zone will give you plenty of warning.

(...)

Sorry, no radar here.

There sure was a radar on the abandoned boat, no? Many many nice buttons to push. One too many perhaps.

Was their AIS left on when abandoning? Were the lights on? Did the boat fly the signals showing she was not under control? I think there are such signals mentioned in the Colregs. I cannot see them in the video.

How far from the Caribbean they abandoned?

If the boat was not sinking, or sunk, it should not be abandoned. The crew can be transferred to another ship, then the skipper can keep on limping on. Or is Atlantic there, at this time, too dangerous for such an attempt?

I imagined the luck struck on the trade wind passage to the West Indies, in the good season. I must have misinterpreted the video. Sorry for that.

Try talking people into abandoning their cars on the road. The ones still on the road may disagree somewhat on how safe such a practice is.

b.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Not seen the OP say the boat wasn't insured at all. Most European marinas will not even let you enter without third party insurance (especially Spain), and he was coming from Europe, so it's unlikely he had nothing in place, probably just not on fully comp.

If you crash in to it, it's probably going to be 50-50 liability, keeping a proper watch and all that jazz. A bit like that young Aussie girl in the pink boat crashing into the tanker/container or whatever it was.

My understanding is that most basic insurance (incl. mine) will not cover an ocean crossing. Need add'l/separate insurance for that, and apparently it can be quite expensive so many opt to go without.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Exile

My understanding is that most basic insurance (incl. mine) will not cover an ocean crossing. Need add'l/separate insurance for that, and apparently it can be quite expensive so many opt to go without.

Yes you're right on that. I'm actually running quotes now for this year, and you do need to specify your cruising grounds and if you'll be doing any ocean passages.

That being said, in the land based world, even if a driver is not driving in accordance with their insurance, their insurance company is still responsible. They will pay out, and then sue the driver/owner. No idea if there is anything similar in the marine world so I'll keep quite on that.

[NoahTreat]

Even if he did have insurance for the crossing, he doesn't have insurance now. Why would you keep insurance on an abandoned boat?

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by NoahTreat

Even if he did have insurance for the crossing, he doesn't have insurance now. Why would you keep insurance on an abandoned boat?

Fair point.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If a boat however IS insured, and you crash into it, will the insurer pay?b.

Why should the insurer pay because someone crashed into it by failing to keep a lookout? in fact that could really back fire if you caused damage to an abandoned yacht not under command by failing to keep a look out

Pete

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by boatman61

They were NE of Barbados so maybe 200nm from the islands.. wind and currents in their favour.
However.. I can sympathise somewhat with their situation if this was their first ocean crossing.
Its surprising how many folk (despite them thinking otherwise) are totally unprepared for rough weather, open ocean and nowhere to run to.. and even more who will happily sacrifice sea room for the illusion of safety.
I have had proudly experienced owners (charterers) crumble in 35kt winds and 2.5 metre sea's on a black night.. "I never realised it could be like this".. was the cry.. "I cant see anything.. I don't know what to do.."
Its easier for someone solo or with a single crew who has total confidence in you.. but when you bring a possibly inexperienced wife and a couple of kids into the equation thoughts must turn to their safety and wellbeing.. a suffering family being tossed around in 3-4metre or more sea's in an out of control boat can turn most skippers to the Abandon Ship mindset.

I would agree with you wholeheartedly...and in fact do, but in this case their boat broke, and as it normally does, it broke some more.