Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

If you had a wind vane could that act as an emergency rudder?

EDIT:

In fact yes. Just watched a few videos of windpilot, hydrovane etc.. one the feature is the ability to use it as an emergency rudder. Probably a bit more useful than a dedicated emergency rudder?

A windvane emergency rudder is only a % of the area of the main rudder area and is a fine control device WHILE the main rudder is still present. HOWEVER, in many cases of rudder failure the main rudder is either lost or dropped or otherwise compromised. Then your windvane rudder is too small to control the boat BUT it is a good first line of defense and together with other methods and with some sail mods may help you get to B anyways.

Still, notice only two makes have anything like a rudder out there: the Hydrovane and the Windpilot (only the biggest one though).

Since having a windvane is often associated with serious offshore sailing, other than buying the 'right' windvane I would also consider buying a boat that is designed to minimise the risk of a critical ruder failure. There are both older and very modern designs of that ilk.

Setting off in a boat that is likely to have any rudder challenges is simply the wrong choice for an offshore going sailor.

b.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Alexd83

Suppose that rudder could not be rigged and the boat had to be abandoned. What can be done to ease the search and recovery of the boat? it may be beneficial for new sailors to like me.

Good question and it, for me, is an easy answer.

He left his engine running when he got off and didn't have adiquite solar to keep batteries charged.

If I abandoned, I would hope to turn off the engine, turn off all electrics except the AIS and bilge pump. Secure all hatches. Drop all sails.
My solar will keep the batteries at 100% so the AIS would continue to operate forever.

The important point is "hope" to do all those things but in an abandonment onto a ship or helicopter its very very very likely I would be using the engine to maneuver to get close to the cargo net without being crushed to death. Get close, jump onto the net and climb like hell. Where's the chance to cut the engine?
So unless you have solar to keep the boat going you're stuffed.

Also, in the abandonment do you really think you've got the thought process to turn the fridge off, run through some check list etc? I reckon my mind would be fried and I would just be thinking about saving my bum.

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by Sandero

Placing a heavy OB into a lowish mount in a seaway would be difficult. You need a decent supply of gas as well.

You might be able to use some sort of hardware to drop a barn door type rudder from above and use with a tiller... assuming you lost the main steering.

I´ve got a sugarscoop boat, and my outboard only weights 28 kg. so it´s not so difficult to lower it with the boom extension, but, as I said, I´ve only done it in calm waters.

Mariano

Fair winds

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

... Also, in the abandonment do you really think you've got the thought process to turn the fridge off, run through some check list etc? I reckon my mind would be fried and I would just be thinking about saving my bum.

Indeed. I also.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Good question and it, for me, is an easy answer.

He left his engine running when he got off and didn't have adiquite solar to keep batteries charged.

If I abandoned, I would hope to turn off the engine, turn off all electrics except the AIS and bilge pump. Secure all hatches. Drop all sails.
My solar will keep the batteries at 100% so the AIS would continue to operate forever.

The important point is "hope" to do all those things but in an abandonment onto a ship or helicopter its very very very likely I would be using the engine to maneuver to get close to the cargo net without being crushed to death. Get close, jump onto the net and climb like hell. Where's the chance to cut the engine?
So unless you have solar to keep the boat going you're stuffed.

Also, in the abandonment do you really think you've got the thought process to turn the fridge off, run through some check list etc? I reckon my mind would be fried and I would just be thinking about saving my bum.

Mark.. most abandons I've been near enough to monitor over the VHF they usually encourage the folks to move to the life raft/dinghy for retrieval.. this incudes helo pick ups.
The ship moves to lie beam on upwind and drifts down to the raft in its lee and heaving lines are thrown to pull the raft close for disembarking.
When you think of it this is much safer especially if there's a big swell running.. there's a lot of boat and mast that can get you as you clamber up that net.
There's a thread at the moment that demonstrates the hazards of big swell in a calm sea off Sines, Portugal at the moment where a pilots trying to board.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Good question and it, for me, is an easy answer.

He left his engine running when he got off and didn't have adiquite solar to keep batteries charged.

If I abandoned, I would hope to turn off the engine, turn off all electrics except the AIS and bilge pump. Secure all hatches. Drop all sails.
My solar will keep the batteries at 100% so the AIS would continue to operate forever.

Same here, but I'd also keep my Delorme Inreach switched on and plugged in to a charging socket in the saloon. That way you remove the "search" element completely from the "search and recovery".

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Also, in the abandonment do you really think you've got the thought process to turn the fridge off, run through some check list etc? I reckon my mind would be fried and I would just be thinking about saving my bum.

I think after following much of this thread, if it did happen to me, I'd hope to remember to drop my anchor out as far as possible. The rest, who knows.

[Tricolor]

This topic learned me the lesson that my boat needs a main switch that disconnect everything from the batteries exept the Solar charge circuit, the Tracker (Yellowbrick, Inreach) and the AIS, this switch needs to be operated from the cockpit.

Something like this...

[Jim Cate]

Still, notice only two makes have anything like a rudder out there: the Hydrovane and the Windpilot (only the biggest one though).

There's also the Autohelm (not to be confused with the electronic kit) sold now by Scanmar. It has a sturdy aux rudder, and would suffice to steer if one reduced sail as required and trimmed carefully.

Jim

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

If you had a wind vane could that act as an emergency rudder?

EDIT:

In fact yes. Just watched a few videos of windpilot, hydrovane etc.. one the feature is the ability to use it as an emergency rudder. Probably a bit more useful than a dedicated emergency rudder?

Figured the same here. The photos of the boat that was lost in this thread sports some sort of fold down door of sorts across her transom.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There's also the Autohelm (not to be confused with the electronic kit) sold now by Scanmar. It has a sturdy aux rudder, and would suffice to steer if one reduced sail as required and trimmed carefully.

Jim

+1! bump

Indeed looks the man for the job too!

b.

[barnakiel]

To the poster who wants to abandon and collect later: leave the Spot, CLS, YB, InReach, etc. ON.

Preferably plugged into a solar panel too.

b.

[boatman61]

This may be of interest to folks following this Thread..
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ea-179897.html

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There's also the Autohelm (not to be confused with the electronic kit) sold now by Scanmar. It has a sturdy aux rudder, and would suffice to steer if one reduced sail as required and trimmed carefully.

Jim

The Auto helm has been around a very long time, too bad it looks like it was made in a Russian tractor factory.

[Dave_S]

Watching the clip in an earlier post of the drogue and the cost, effectiveness, and it's multipurpose. Seems like a no brainer to me. I assume it would be just as effective or more so on a cat ?